Emulator install and settings

[dillweed]

Not the springs, the emulators. I'm looking for someone who did it themsleves, so I know how difficult it was. There are certain modifications you need to do.

[stough]

Yup,

I installed the emulators, springs, etc... I needed to take one of the forks to a local shop (Eric's Motorcycles in Pasadena) to have them get the damper rod bolt off. I also had them drill the additional holes in both damper rods since they had the proper tools (like a drill press and precision hole cutters rather than the hand drill I was planning on using).

NOTE: I :love:LOVE:love: them! I would guess that the difference is 20% better margin in the corners; that is that I find myself doing 60 in corners that I only did 50 in before.

Here's my write up from the SV650 EZBoard:

Racetech and Bridgestone, Thank You!!

Last week, I finally gave in to my desires for improved suspension and the rapidly balding Mez4's and ordered Racetech springs (0.80), cartridge emulators, new for oil (20wt), and new tires (BT010 front, BT020 rear).

This weekend, off came the wheels and the forks. I put the rear on a wheel stand/spools and suspended the front from my garage ceiling (4 porch swing hooks and 4 cargo straps). While I was at it, I replaced the spark plugs (@7500mi) and shimmed the carbs (just swapped the shim/washer to the other side of the e-clip). The only problems that I encountered were tough screws/bolts. I chewed up the carb vacuume cover screws a bit and had to take the forks to a shop to have them pull one of the damper rods. I also had them drill the damper rods since they have a drill press and hole cutters ($30 labor). I had no problems getting the forks back together and truned/preloaded to the Racetech specs. All in all, it took a day including the time at the shop (split between Friday evening, part of Saturday, and Monday evening). I took my time and followed the shop manual and the carb shim howto (catpoopman).

After the roads dried off today, I took a spin up on the Angeles Crest to scrub in the tires and Wow! It was worth every dime and every hour I spent in the garage. The ride was much smoother and more planted. The suspension was able to handle small bumps in the corners which formerly made it feel wobbly. I didn't notice the carb change much, but it was not a major change. There may be a bit less lean surge, but it could all be in my head.

The grand total was $420 parts, $30 shop labor, and 10 hours my labor. I have little or no experience working on vehicles of any kind and found it easy and fun (of course it was also time consuming and occasionally frustrating, but not too much).

Later,
Tim.

[dillweed]

Thanks for posting. I think I'll pass on the emulators for now, and just put springs in. There's no way I'd be able to take apart the damper rod myself, and I don't have a car so I'd be kind of screwed if I needed to take the forks to a shop. For me it just doesn't seem like a DIY mod. :(

[bwarbiany]

I've heard if you loosen the damping rod bolt a little *BEFORE* you remove the forks, it's a lot easier to get off... But I've never done it...

Brad

[stough]

Dillweed,

I bet that if you bought an impact driver at Sears and a 8mm hex attachment for it (must be ~3" long), you could give the bolt a few whacks before you un-spring the forks. That would have worked great! If you get to this point and can't remove the damper rod, you can skip the emulator till alter.

Anyhow, the drilling would still be challenging. In preparation, you should buy a pair of good metal cutting drill bits; one small (like 1/16 or 1/8) and one at 5/16 (the final size of the hole you need). Also get a center punch to mark the spot. When you go to drill, punch the spot hard to get a good dimple to start the bit. Then start with the small bit drill and follow with the larger. Do one side, then the other (ie. don't try to drill both holes from the same side).

One more idea would be to do it at someone elses house. Someone who has a car or is right next to a shop. You know, like at the next wrenchfest... :D

Good Luck,
Tim.

[bwarbiany]

Hey all, I just bought .90 springs and emulators, 20 wt oil... I set the emulators to 2 turns as spec'd by RaceTech, and I have only felt the popoff once... I was cranked over in a turn, and didn't even feel a bump from the front, but the rear pogo'd... So I'm guessing the front did what it's supposed to do... But I think on some of the other bumps, it should have popped off as well and didn't...

Just wondering what you all have set your emulators to, and how they're working over bumps... I'm 260 lbs, and was thinking about taking a 1/2 turn off the emulator... Anyone tried this, or am I just on crack? At this point I don't know what I expect from the emulators beyond how good that one bump felt, so I don't know if I've adjusted a little too much preload into the emulator spring to get it working like this more often...

Brad

[stough]

Brad,

I have 0.80 springs, 20wt oil, and emulators set to 2 turns. I weigh in at 175 (prolly more now, but I ain't looking). I've never been able to identify the emulators "popping." I noticed a much improved ride when I installed them, but I switched from Mez4's to the BT010/020 combo at the same time...

It can't hurt to adjust the emulators. However, it will be a bit messy to get the emulators out and readjusted. Since you have an SVS, you can prolly do it without removing the forks.

When I was setting up my emulators, I thought to myself, I hope that Racetech is right, this would be a pain to adjust. :rolleyes:

Good luck,
Tim.

[bwarbiany]

I'm thinking if I do need to adjust them, I might be able to suspend the front, take off the fork caps, pull the spacers and springs, and use a long grabber tool to get the emulator out. This way I shouldn't need to totally drop the wheel, forks, brakes, and everything and then replace all my fork oil... I haven't decided whether I really need to do this just yet...

And I hadn't noticed them opening before that one bump... But when i felt the front just track over the bump, and it was the back that gave me an indication that there was actually a bump, I liked that feeling :)

Dillweed, did you end up changing your emulator setting? I know you weren't too fond of the way it was responding...

Brad

[dillweed]

Yes, I did change it........I went over to Toms place and suspended the front end, took the caps and springs out, and just used a parts grabber to pull the emulator out. It must have had somewhere between 2-3 turns of preload on it, so I re-set them to what I felt was "1" turn of preload. It did definitely improve the ride over bumps, although brake dive increased a little (still better than stock though). And the ride over bumps is still not what I would call a "transformation" over stock.....in fact it probably isn't any better than stock. I know it handles better, and responds better, and brakes better than stock, but I was expecting the emulators to absorb the bumps........but they don't. It might be better if I swapped the 20W for 15W, but then I'd have to take the forks out again to get all of it out.......and that's not something I'm looking forward to

[gregbenner]

On a recents post, a couple of you suggested Cragoracing as a good place to go (they are pretty close to where I live). I talked with Tony (i think) re: the front forks (getting ready for the Streets event). He suggested the racetech springs and heavier oil, but "discouraged" the use of emulators. He said that on track bikes his experience was that they really beat the sh$t out of the fork oil and the forks needed servicing after every couple of events.

On this and the SV650 Riders site, emulators seem pretty popular.However, when a reputable shop suggests NOT spending money, I have to take them seriously. Any thoughts??

[Natedawgg]

I put emulators in last May I think. Ridden thousands of miles, about 100 of which were on Buttonwillow Raceway, since then and the bike feels great. A little bumpy on longer rides, but not enough to bother me.

I say yes, do the emulators, but you can always go a stage at a time. Try heavier springs and oil. That may be all you need. If you want more, you can always add it later.

You'll be fine on the track either way.

[bwarbiany]

Are they going to do something to change the damping? I know a suspension shop up in NorCal (Lindemann if any of you know it), that took a friend's SV, put in the springs and oil, and brazed two of the holes in the damping rod shut. I think for a lot of racers, this is sometimes a better solution (don't know why, maybe it's just cheaper :D )

I can't refute what Crago says... But I must say, it's the first time I've *EVER* heard that...

[Dr. D]

I've also heard of some racers going with just a modified damper rod. The problem with that set-up is you can't do it yourself unless you really know what your doing. Old school suspension gurus swear by that method of tuning.

[zzzwillzzz]

greg definitely put the emulators in.... your pace on the street and even at track days is nowhere near the pace of racers so you wouldn't be causing that sort of problem (maybe not after your track day)

i had the emulators in my hawk and in my sv... once you've got the suspension sorted all you have to do is figure out how to get past all the people who will be in your way in the corners

will

[Danny]

For sure. Easiest solution to pogo effect. The damper rods should also be modified(drilled and brazed). Beat the shit out of oil:D?Most racers change their fluid after every weekend anyways.

[dnakase]

Maybe he was trying to soften the impact of how much he was going to charge you to install the emulators.

But oil is cheap.

[gregbenner]

Thanks for the replies:

1) Re: price of oil, I think the issue is cost to service the forks (labor), plus getting bike to the shop, not price of oil. Plus, I thought installation was almost nil if the forks were apart for springs and oil anyway?

2) dnakase, good point. However, when I asked about using a gixxer rear shock, he suggested ohlins (maybe fox). He estimated the price at a grand or so(not sure if labor included, we were just talking generalities at that point). However, I might not have given him an accurate perception of how I currently ride (and how I think I will in the future), i.e. not real aggressive. Weight (195 lbs) might be the only issue.

I will ask him again. He certainly was more than willing to put them in (I suggested them); rather it seemed he just didn't like the upkeep. I'll post again after I talk to him. My plan is to get this done early next week.

[dnakase]

I had posted on the Shop List thread about a place called CycleMall.net. They list the Ohlin shock for $650.

I'm also leaning toward either springs or emulators. But the little money I have right now may slip through my fingers too fast.

Maybe we could have one of the techies on the board host a fork party here in L.A.? (Assuming I spend my money right and buy bike upgrades and not food ;-) )

[Natedawgg]

Guys here are talking about what racers do. Are you a racer? I sure as shit wouldn't ride my SV with racing suspension around here. Roads aren't that smooth. Racers never see potholes, big lumpy patches or fissures the size of your wrist. I would venture to guess (and this is just a guess) that suspension that's way too stiff would actually be more likely to slip in an uneven corner.

[Dr. D]

It's not that you need to have a racers suspension done to the T, but racers know best and racer suspension can be softened for the street with excellent results. All forms of technology follow this rule.

Example= Military designs a jet to fight prop driven fighters/ years later your flying on a toned down (or tweaked and refined depending on how you look at it) version of that technology. Works that way for racing (any racing), chemicals, vitamins, household appliances, etc., etc.

[dnakase]

Originally posted by Natedawgg
Guys here are talking about what racers do. Are you a racer? I sure as shit wouldn't ride my SV with racing suspension around here. Roads aren't that smooth. Racers never see potholes, big lumpy patches or fissures the size of your wrist. I would venture to guess (and this is just a guess) that suspension that's way too stiff would actually be more likely to slip in an uneven corner.

Huh?

Even on race bikes the suspension has to be able to accomidate uneven surfaces. That's why race bike suspensions have more adjustments than my color TV.

All things considered, you want a compliant suspension that absorbs bumps. The stock suspension bits are just too low tech to do this well.

From what I've read of the thread the guy at Cargoracing seems to be saying, "If you are going to make it a dedicated track bike do a mod that will keep the maintance overhead low and cost less."

Changing the springs and oil I could do. Emulators I'd want help or send to a shop, since I'd want new seals etc.

In my case I want a more plush ride. Nothing is going to make me a vary fast rider. I can live with that.

[motosapien]

I just finished with Race Tech emulators and springs. I weigh 195 and their recomended set up was 20wt. oil and .80 springs.

Do go to the svrider board and look for that step-by-step in the tips & tricks section. If you go with the emulators, you will need to drill out the 4 existing holes in the dampening rod to 5/16" and add two more. It was a fair bit of work. I used an air impact tool to get the dampening rods out. I could do it again in about a third of the time I think so getting a fellow rider who's done it would be a big plus.

Because of the snow and cold here I have not been able to test it out yet......

Erik

[johnnySV]

interestingly.... the valving profile specs on racetech's website has lead me to some confusion... it seems the only set-up difference between rider's of equal skill level but differing weights is in the Spring Rate, while the # of turns on the emulator, the oil weight, oil level, and the pre-load remain constant.

I am curious to know who has deviated from these baseline settings, and how so. it just strikes me as odd that heavier riders would not require heavier damping (but only a heavier spring).

the deal is that we are setting up 2 sv's w/ emulators:

my sv... intermediate street rider, 140lbs. w/o gear

recommendation is maintain stock springs, 2 turns on the emulator. 20wt oil filled to 130mm, w/ 25mm preload

my brotha's sv... amature racer, 170lbs w/o gear

recommendation is 0.85 springs, 2 turns on the emulator. 20wt oil filled to 130mm, w/ 25mm preload

*i have heard thart for racing the emulators should have 4 turns on them ??

should either of us deviate from the settings above for our respective bikes because i am a skinny little dude, and my bro is Mr. Average @ 170lbs ??

[zepTT]

Well I am 160lbs w/o gear, amature racer I am trying 4 turns on the emulator, .90 springs (I like it pretty firm) and 20wt. I will let you know how it works.
It feels firm but no more than my old X race zx6r, that had who knows what work done on it.
I will let you know after my first race day of the year on the 25th, wish me luck.
z

ps. Brad, you could use a magnetic parts grabber that worked well for me.

[dillweed]

Originally posted by johnnySV


should either of us deviate from the settings above for our respective bikes because i am a skinny little dude, and my bro is Mr. Average @ 170lbs ??
For you, at 140 lbs, I wouldn't use more than 15W oil.

[Orpheos]

I've got mine set to 2.5 turns with 15 weight oil and its about right on. Remember to shorten those steel tubes or replace them with PVC or you're preload/sag will be way to high. I weigh about 160, 190 or so with all my gear. I had the backend bounce problem too but that went away with the GSXR rear shock. Very pleased with the bike now.

[Reddog99]

Originally posted by dillweed
For you, at 140 lbs, I wouldn't use more than 15W oil.
I know I've said this before, but at less than 125 lbs, I have my emulators set at two turns (actually, no change from "as delivered" condition). I'm running the 20 wt. oil and stock springs, and the ride & handling are great, much better than stock.

Maybe I did something wrong..... :p

Pat

[dillweed]

Well in Jamul you don't have to put up with as many bumpy roads as we do in the city. And I have heard several other people on the svrider board who were my weight (150) say the 20W oil was too thick.

[Reddog99]

Originally posted by dillweed
Well in Jamul you don't have to put up with as many bumpy roads as we do in the city. And I have heard several other people on the svrider board who were my weight (150) say the 20W oil was too thick.
Hans, I don't dispute that you're feeling what you say, I just don't understand it. Logically, my lower weight would seem to mean a harsher ride. I've been trying to figure what it is that makes my ride "better" than yours. I wonder if your loose steering head bearings could be transmitting shocks to the handlebars? I have the naked model, so I'm not leaning on the bars like you probably are, and maybe I just don't feel the shocks?

By the way, I drive several miles of dirt road every day, so I probably experience at least as many bumps as you. :eek:

Pat

[Rudeboy]

Just looking for install help ... I hope there is a huge thread on it that search didn't find.

So working on an 03 svs (the exact same fork as the 02)

So the wheel, that's gotta go... to get the dampening rod out. Can you still leave the fork on the bike?

The job sucks... I hate taking apart the new bike, hoping that those 150 bucks were worth it, getting oil all over the place...

The direction I have seem ok, but if anyone has any tips or tricks specifically for the sv I think it would be a good thread to have a discussion about.

Or maybe I'm just incompetent (I hope so :D certainly isn't a job I want) anyway... I'm not doing shit tonite so behold the ten hour install.

I'll report back later for anyone that cares...

[twf]

you sure you want to do it yourself since you asking if you need to take forks of the bike?
if you going to do all it should be done than you need to take everything apart,to last bolt/part.
you need to drill damping rod,braze rebound hole,install emulator,set oil level,cut spacer,and put all back together.

[bwarbiany]

Well, you do need to pull the forks... That's really easy though... I recommend having someone around who has some semblance of an idea how to do it... Myself and dillweed both got through it in many hours, but we had an idea of what we needed to do before we started...

If you have nobody who can help you, and you're not necessarily mechanically inclined, I'd have someone else do it... If you're good with a wrench, you'll be able to get it done eventually...

[linp]

I think he wants to have a Maintenance Day (ie, Gregg-and-Brad-do-the-work Day). That's his subtle way of asking.

[Rudeboy]

well wishing one of ya'lls could drop by, that's for sure.

I think I'm going to take the fork off right now... then go to a shop for the drilling/brazing and whatever else I can't do.

I thought that I read somewhere that you could do the whole project in an hour... kinda like watching trucks... "we'll just drop in our new big block, and after we slap these headers on we're ready to go!!! WHOAA AWESOME POWER"

NOT.

alright back to the garage....

[Golden_Eternity]

Originally posted by linp
I think he wants to have a Maintenance Day (ie, Gregg-and-Brad-do-the-work Day). That's his subtle way of asking.

In detroit?

[Rudeboy]

that wasn't that bad. It was pretty easy.. just a little daunting. I got everything out and on my way to take the rods in to be drilled.

Did have some help though.... probably wouldn't do it without someone else there, unless you read a step by step somewhere.

[Orpheos]

I did mine in about 5 hours. The real challenge was getting the bolts off the bottom of the fork. Otherwise, be careful when you're drilling the holes in the damping rod. Use a vice, and a good drill bit.

[jacksplat]

hola!
anyway for all who are considering this mod, check out the svrider tips and tricks section.
it took me a good while to get the emulators in, but once they were in its a whole new bike. well especially since i coupled the emulators to RT springs, an ohlins shock, EBC pads and SS brake lines all at the same time :D
ok things to know about the emulators.
everything is pretty easy EXCEPT for getting the damping rod out which is practically impossible. i b!tched out and took my forks to a dealership and had them use an air gun to take out the damping rods and put them back in when i was done drilling the holes.
i dont really understand folks who say the emulators arent a hot setup. you probably have to couple it to an aftermarket shock or at least a gixxer shock to see the full effect of a transformed suspension, but it is nothing less than AMAZING.
i live in NYC and i've seen some crazy potholes and have had some seriously scary near tank slappers - but the suspension has never let me down.
and btw - the rear suspension is really really stiff on the stock SV
i had a chance to sit on a friends and it actually hurt my toochie :o

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by jacksplat
i dont really understand folks who say the emulators arent a hot setup. you probably have to couple it to an aftermarket shock or at least a gixxer shock to see the full effect of a transformed suspension, but it is nothing less than AMAZING.

I rode my bike for around a year or so with the emulators/springs before doing the rear shock, and the emulators (especially when you're large like me) don't make all that big of a difference compared to emulators, RT springs, without doing the rear suspension. The reason is that in stock form, the front and rear suspension is equally shitty. If you only change one, the other is still crappy, and they're not working together.

When you do both the front and rear suspension, and they're both acting in unison, that's when the bike really feels better...


and btw - the rear suspension is really really stiff on the stock SV

No it's not... I went with a spring about 75% stiffer than the stock SV spring when I got my GSXR shock. Most bikes from the factory are undersprung and underdamped (to give a "plush" ride). The recommendation for people with aftermarket shocks that are average weight is to stiffen the spring considerably, and then for me I had to go WAY higher...

[Rudeboy]

I got the dampening rod out no sweat, with a shitty little allen key (6 mm, I think or 8mm) , although I did use a small breaker bar extension like 8 inches. I had someone hold the fork while I was twisting it... I did give it some "ggrrrr!" but it opened pretty well. It snaps open which is scary because you think that you broke something but that's just the way it opens.

You need some help... I've got a new bike so maybe on an older one it's tougher. Also much to my surprise the holes in the rod on my '03 are already 5/16's!!!! yaahoo! so I just have to drill two more. That was nice surprise.

Count me out on that 650+ dollar rear shock, the front was diving like crazy and I hated that I haven't had any problems with the back.. it's pretty stiff and I'm not small... like 190. But I haven't rode it with the new set up yet...

[dillweed]

I recommend people just change the oil first, before doing anything else. I dont' think the emulators are worth it. They didn't improve the "pogo" effect for me at all.

[Rudeboy]

yeah good call... I don't think I'd shell out for those again.

[zoltan]

i bought my '00 sv650 with racetech .80 springs and emulators already installed up front, and a progressive suspension 420 series shock in the rear, with the damping set to 2. right now the front sag is about 29mm and about 24mm at the rear. i weigh about 145 without gear.

the problem is the suspension feels very harsh, in fact, it seems like the bike skips over bumps instead of absorbing them. it mostly feels like the problem is up front, but it's hard to tell with the bike bucking. needless to say, this doesn't help my confidence when cornering, and really beats the crap out of me on rough roads. so the question is, what do i do? what do i have to do to get the bike feeling more plush and making sure that my tires stay in touch with the ground all the time?

[Golden_Eternity]

Originally posted by zoltan
so the question is, what do i do? what do i have to do to get the bike feeling more plush and making sure that my tires stay in touch with the ground all the time?

.80 is stiff for someone who weighs 145... You could have probably done fine with the stock springs... Check with racetech, they'll probably say to go down to at most a .75...

[SVelocity]

Originally posted by zoltan
i bought my '00 sv650 with racetech .80 springs and emulators already installed up front, and a progressive suspension 420 series shock in the rear, with the damping set to 2. right now the front sag is about 29mm and about 24mm at the rear. i weigh about 145 without gear.

the problem is the suspension feels very harsh, in fact, it seems like the bike skips over bumps instead of absorbing them. it mostly feels like the problem is up front, but it's hard to tell with the bike bucking. needless to say, this doesn't help my confidence when cornering, and really beats the crap out of me on rough roads. so the question is, what do i do? what do i have to do to get the bike feeling more plush and making sure that my tires stay in touch with the ground all the time?

What weight is your fork oil and how many turns are on the emulator?

It could be your emulator is set to a stiff/race setting. Thus causing a harsh ride. Plus at your light weight and if you are using heavy fork oil (20wt+) with your emulator at a race setting this could case an even harsher ride. Furthermore, with the heavy fork oil your rebounding will suffer and (everybody, correct me if I am wrong) making the bike feel like it's skipping.

Since you bought your bike with the emulators and oil in place, you need to check these settings and alter or replace according to your weight. Since I am 200+lbs I am not sure what those settings are but you can ask around or check the Racetech site for that information.

Chris

[zoltan]

don't know and don't know. how many turns should the emulators have and what weight oil should i be using? should i consider switching back to the stock springs?

[Golden_Eternity]

Originally posted by zoltan
don't know and don't know. how many turns should the emulators have and what weight oil should i be using? should i consider switching back to the stock springs?

You should be using a heavier weight because of the heavier springs... but I think those springs are too much... The racetech web site has a tool for you to put in your weight and it'll suggest a spring rate... Check it out.

[zoltan]

Originally posted by Golden_Eternity
.80 is stiff for someone who weighs 145... You could have probably done fine with the stock springs... Check with racetech, they'll probably say to go down to at most a .75...

i've used their calculator, and it tells me to go with a .731 spring, and .706 is the stock spring rate. the problem is race-tech currently doesn't make a .75 spring (at least they don't have any listed under their products).

[SVelocity]

Originally posted by zoltan
i've used their calculator, and it tells me to go with a .731 spring, and .706 is the stock spring rate. the problem is race-tech currently doesn't make a .75 spring (at least they don't have any listed under their products).

Check Traxxion or Progressive...

Usually Traxxion recommends a higher spring rate claiming Racetech's recommendation are normally to low. Never the less, I would agree with G_E...8.0 is probably to stiff of a spring for your weight.

Regardless, I think you are going to have to break your forks down and find out what the emulators are set at. Since you didn't do the work yourself it would also be a good opportunity to double check everything to make sure the procedure was done right, i.e., drilling out the original dampeners, etc.

Chris

[jarelj]

Originally posted by Rudeboy
I got the dampening rod out no sweat, with a shitty little allen key (6 mm, I think or 8mm) , although I did use a small breaker bar extension like 8 inches. I had someone hold the fork while I was twisting it... I did give it some "ggrrrr!" but it opened pretty well. It snaps open which is scary because you think that you broke something but that's just the way it opens.


That's because the bolt has threadlocker on it. You should also use threadlocker (blue) when you reinstall the bolt, according to the service manual.

[jarelj]

Originally posted by twf
...
if you going to do all it should be done than you need to take everything apart,to last bolt/part.
you need to drill damping rod,braze rebound hole,install emulator,set oil level,cut spacer,and put all back together.

In the Race-Tech directions that I got with my emulators it said that I did NOT need to braze the stock rebound hole. Is that a recommendation you're making outside of what Race-Tech recommends, or could I have gotten bad instructions???

[twf]

I dont read their instruction.it is what I tried.
they also say to use spring that does not exist.

[Ziguy]

With the emulator, the rebound holes should be brazed or not?

[twf]

it should be brazed with or without,there is no rebound to begin with.
to much blow by.
than you can play with oil weight.

[bwarbiany]

Zoran,
My understanding was with the emulators, that you wanted to increase the size of the holes already there, as well as drill two additional. This is what is called for in the Race Tech instructions...

From your experience, is this incorrect?

[longshot]

There are 2 sets of holes: the 2 small ones near the top are to be brazed closed .

The large ones are near the bottom -- this is where you add 2 more. (as recommended by RaceTech).

[twf]

yes,but those are compression holes,not rebound.emulators dont control rebound,just compression.also drilling additional holes is not great idea,increasing existing holes is better.
problem with drilling additional holes on top of existing is that when forks are fully compressed you will run out of rebound at that part of travel.tube slides over hole and now those hole act as rebound holes.
be carefull what and where you drilling :D

[twf]

there is only one near the top.

[longshot]

Z -- just 1 small hole at the top, huh ? Forgot about that, been a while since I did the RaceTech springs, emulators & oil mods .....

[Xplodee]

Okay,

I've got the emulators and the forks are off the bike. I tried getting the damper rod allen bolt out but its just twisting in there (only with a lot of force though, its not stripped) so I think that the damper rod is rotating with the bolt. Any advice for this?

I'm going to braze the top hole but I haven't read any solid advice on whether I should redrill it or not. If I should re-drill it, what size should I drill it to?

TWF suggests I don't add more holes on bottom, just make them bigger. Racetech says 5/16" but that's with the addition of two more holes. How much bigger should I go?

Lastly, I have a 2002 model so I've got pre-load adjusters. Do I still need to cut down the spacer tube that goes above the spring?

Thanks for any help, I want to do this installation right the first time.

[twf]

no redrilling.
I drill them to 3/8.
put spring back in and screw cap,than try to get bolt loose.
you need to cut spacers so when you screw cap on there is 15mm of preload on spring.

[csumd]

First alternatively heat the bolt with a lighter, then hammer it with an allen wrench (purely metal, L shape, no T-handles or "key sets"). Do that 3-5 times.

If you don't want to buy the Suzuki tool or use a broomstick...

I used a 13mm craftsman (3/8" drive) regular socket, on a hugeass 3/8" drive extension bar, on a socket wrench, which I put my foot on top of (so the socket is up in the air). It shouldn't matter that my socket wrench was 1/2" drive and I had an adapter.

Hold the fork upside down so the 13mm socket is supporting the whole fork via the damper rod. Press down on the fork to create friction between the socket and the damper rod. The 3/8" drive extension bar should be about 30" if my memory is right.

Whack the bolt a couple more times with the hammer+allen wrench.

Now you can bust out the handy T-handle allen wrench and begin removing the bolt while pushing down on the fork to maintain friction. remember the ratcheting socket wrench on the ground should not be ratcheting as the damper rod turns...

oh yeah edit...once the damper rod is out, you may find the 13mm socket stuck inside...I used a bbq skewer and a hammer to break it free.

if the socket doesn't "stick" to the damper rod at all try drying out the inside of the damper rod of oil with paper towls.

[dillweed]

I swear, the amount of squat seems to have increased over the last few months........What happens is, I'll be upshifting from 1st to 2nd, or 2nd to 3rd, and as soon as I pull the clutch in, the forks sink down, and then when I apply the power, they spring back up.......it makes stoplights not fun at all........It just seems to be getting worse over the last couple months.

This is a problem of too little damping, I know.........I could have too little compression damping in the forks, or too little rebound damping in the rear shock perhaps.

I'm too lazy and too cheap to buy Gixxer forks or shock, LOL

I guess I could take my forks apart for the FOURTH time, and go back to 20W oil instead of 15W, or maybe stiffen the emulators, or maybe braize the rebound hole shut so that the forks don't spring back up so quickly......

I'm thinkin the last choice might be kind of cool......it would increase the rebound damping without increasing the compression damping.........Anyone ever braize their hole shut? Who did it for you?

[Setter32]

.....I don't think it's your oil weight........

.....I have 15w and racetech springs in the SV..............and she is tres firm on braking........

........it may be your damping........as you said.......

......I know this sounds obvious.....or basic..........but make sure your forks are not leakin..........and you have enough oil in them......

......and yes..........I'm talkin out of my ass.............these are just guesses.....



:D

[dillweed]

...............no leaks...........but yeah, I might take the easy way out and just pour some more oil in there anyway..........

.........I was just wondering if anyone has braized their rebound hole shut ............and can provide more details.......

..............

:D

[twf]

everybody serious about it has brazed rebound hole.
do you have emulators in?

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by twf
everybody serious about it has brazed rebound hole.
do you have emulators in?

How hard is it to braze the rebound hole? I hear every once in a while it's a good idea to change the fork oil, so maybe I should check sag, maybe adjust emulators if needed and braze the rebound hole...

All after letting someone large and fast ride my bike to let me know what changes I need :D

[twf]

hard for who?
you take rod to welder and he welds hole closed.you smooth outside of rod and put back in.
easy to me :)

[burdman]

I'm planning on modifying both my front and back suspension in the next month or so now that I have new tires to put on anyway.

I want to install Racetech emulators and springs and my question is what parts I'm going to need for the Emulator upgrade. When I plug in all my info into the Racetech site, they list the standard things that are mentioned in this thread, emulator kit, Springs (0.8 for my weight) and 20wt oil. But, they also list dust seals and inner and outer bushings. Am I going to need all that as well?

If anyone has done a GSXR shock swap, I'd be interested in the required work on that as well. I know I need to get it resprung, but do I also need it revalved? I'd like to be a little bit more educated before I talk to the local guy here that I think I'm going to have do the work.

Thanks
Nick

[zzzwillzzz]

don't bother respringing and revalving a gsxr shock, by the time your done with it, you've spent almost enough money to buy a real shock. it's probably over $300 maybe close to $400, just spend the extra and do it right the first time.

[dillweed]

Originally posted by twf
hard for who?
you take rod to welder and he welds hole closed.you smooth outside of rod and put back in.
easy to me :)
and if I recall correctly, the rebound hole is on the damping rod, right?
The thing way down at the bottom of the fork that's so damn hard to take out? LOL

[bwarbiany]

For the emulators, you don't need dust seals/etc unless you break one.

For the GSXR shock, I disagree with Will on this one... A good aftermarket shock, fully set up, will run at least $500 (and likely more)... A GSXR shock, resprung and revalved, can be done for $300. And it's about 90% as good.

[dillweed]

Originally posted by burdman
I want to install Racetech emulators and springs and my question is what parts I'm going to need for the Emulator upgrade. When I plug in all my info into the Racetech site, they list the standard things that are mentioned in this thread, emulator kit, Springs (0.8 for my weight) and 20wt oil. But, they also list dust seals and inner and outer bushings. Am I going to need all that as well?

I myself wouldn't bother with the emulators......they are hard to dial in correctly......you end up getting either too much damping or too little......and if you don't get it right, you have to dig the emulator out and adjust it

I would save some time and money and just do the oil and springs and see how you like it.

[twf]

Originally posted by dillweed
and if I recall correctly, the rebound hole is on the damping rod, right?
The thing way down at the bottom of the fork that's so damn hard to take out? LOL
right.
I never had problem taking it out :D

[twf]

Originally posted by dillweed
I myself wouldn't bother with the emulators......they are hard to dial in correctly......you end up getting either too much damping or too little......and if you don't get it right, you have to dig the emulator out and adjust it


I think you making big deal out of it.
how hard is to take spring out and fish emulator with piece of wire(coat hanger works great) or magnet.
adjusting is just turning bolt half a turn or so.

[Rudeboy]

I had a hell of a time getting the caps to thread correctly (while compresing the spring a little) after putting in the emulators.. I don't remember how much preload I used.. somewhere in the upper middle on the scale.

I would not be looking forward to changing the emulator settings because of the re-capping. If there were a way to compress the spring while I was screwing on the caps it would be especially easy... but for that one reason I wouldn't even think about adjusting mine unless there was a BIG problem with the way they were working.

[twf]

sounds to me you have to much preload.
upper middle on what scale?

[Kurt'sSV]

Originally posted by twf
I think you making big deal out of it.
how hard is to take spring out and fish emulator with piece of wire(coat hanger works great) or magnet.
adjusting is just turning bolt half a turn or so.

To do this you wouldn't even need to take the forks off, would you? Do you need to get the front end off the ground? You could just pop the top off, take the spring and spacer out, then start fishing around with the coat hanger, right?

[twf]

right.
no need to lift front of ground either.just do one fork at time.

[Xplodee]

when changing springs, is it okay to just pop one cap off at a time and lift the springs out and replace without taking the forks off the bike?

[Rudeboy]

Originally posted by twf
sounds to me you have to much preload.
upper middle on what scale?

on the preload calculator on the racetech site... I upped my weight by 15 lbs or so, for a little stiffer/(I'm heading to the track) ride. That's what I meant.. but I don't remember the measurement. I really don't think there is too much. I measured twice, cut once.. I don't know.. maybe the springs at .9 are quite a bit heavier to work with...

[twf]

Originally posted by Xplodee
when changing springs, is it okay to just pop one cap off at a time and lift the springs out and replace without taking the forks off the bike?
yes.

[twf]

Originally posted by Rudeboy
on the preload calculator on the racetech site... I upped my weight by 15 lbs or so, for a little stiffer/(I'm heading to the track) ride. That's what I meant.. but I don't remember the measurement. I really don't think there is too much. I measured twice, cut once.. I don't know.. maybe the springs at .9 are quite a bit heavier to work with...

I dont know about race tech calculator but you should initialy preload spring for about 15mm.that is not much,to give you problem with caps.

[Xplodee]

Thanks zoran.

[Rudeboy]

Recommended Fork Spring Rate (use closest available) 0.899 kg/mm
Stock Fork Spring Rate (measured) -nr- kg/mm (stock)
Recommended Fork Spring Preload 25 mm
Fork Spring Set Length 500 mm
Compression Valving Shaft Nut Torque (use Loctite) n/a

alrighty there you have it. 25 mm from the racetech site. That may be a lot more than what you have... i.e. Trust me it can be a pain in the ass. I think mine was only around 20-22mm anyway although I can' remember. I didn't go to 25 so I could have some flexibility with the preload adjusters on the bike.

Racetech is the LAW.... unless you know more than they do. :confused:

[dillweed]

Nobody is "the law" when it comes to preload. Preload is all up to each unique individual, according to what they weigh. Last time I checked, the Racetech site does not re-calculate the preload based on your weight.

Checking sag is the only true way of determining the preload you need

[dillweed]

Originally posted by Kurt'sSV
To do this you wouldn't even need to take the forks off, would you? Do you need to get the front end off the ground? You could just pop the top off, take the spring and spacer out, then start fishing around with the coat hanger, right?
I've done it with the bike on the ground, but I needed another person to pull the front end up while I was unscrewing the caps, so that they wouldn't pop off violently. Also, when you put them back on, you need your friend to pull up the front end so that the forks extend enough for you to screw the cap on.

[Rudeboy]

You definitely have a point that everyone has their own opinion, for you, or me for that matter, I guess that would be self evident.

I don't know how racetech calculates their info... I don't know if they are the law, but if not them, then who??

Let's talk about it though... why does sag matter more than anything else?

[dillweed]

Because the only "true" purpose of adjusting preload is to get the correct sag.

Sure, some people adjust preload in order to change the ride height, like how some people bump up the rear preload in order to give the bike more ride height in the rear, and thus turn in quicker........but you could possibly mess up your sag doing that. In fact a lightweight rider risks topping out his suspension if he gives it too much preload.

The best way to make ride height/geometry changes is by raising/lowering the fork tubes in the triple clamp, or by putting shims/washers on the rear shock (some bikes have a nut on the rear shock that you can raise/lower, but the SV doesn't)

Do most SV owners fiddle with their preload? Sure, and so do I, depending on what my objective is, BUT you have to understand that you could be messing up your sag by doing that.

[Dom]

alright so whats the verdict on the emulators? It seems like I might be better off trying to find some gixxer forks or just getting springs and oil and then finding somehting for the rear.

[dillweed]

In summary, when you buy your springs from Racetech, they also give you an aluminum spacer that you have to cut to get the right sag........And even though Racetech might be willing to give you an educated guess, you should really do the calculation yourself, because only you know your weight and your sag.

Before you install the new springs, have someone help you measure your sag, and that will help you figure out how much spacer to cut.

There are articles on this board, telling you how to do the calculation.

Remember, preload's only "true" purpose is to get the right sag. Ideally you should set it and leave it, unless you gain/lose a lot of weight, or add a passenger

Even though some people fiddle with preload in order to "pseudo-stiffen" their bike or change its "rake", their sag will be affected --- possibly pushing it beyond optimal levels

[dillweed]

Originally posted by Dominator
alright so whats the verdict on the emulators? It seems like I might be better off trying to find some gixxer forks or just getting springs and oil and then finding somehting for the rear.
some people love em, some don't.........It's tough to find anyone who's done a true comparison between "Racetech springs/oil" and "Racetech springs/oil/emulators"............

I stand behind what I said before, just try springs & oil first and see how you like em...............there's plenty of people who love it with just springs & oil................and more power to them, because they saved money

[twf]

[i]

Racetech is the LAW.... unless you know more than they do. :confused: [/B]

maybe in your house :)
they do have more knowledge than me about suspension(at least one guy there)
but my suspension still works better than your or any set up by their calculator.
how much free sag you have(bike weight only) and how much total sag with you on bike?

[csumd]

Originally posted by twf
maybe in your house :)
they do have more knowledge than me about suspension(at least one guy there)
but my suspension still works better than your or any set up by their calculator.
how much free sag you have(bike weight only) and how much total sag with you on bike?

This might be a good time to sneak in a question to twf. :D
Zoran, with your perfect shock setup, what springs do you use, how many turns on emulators, and what preload and oil level do you use? I think I weigh about your weight and I should be getting a Penske shock soon so I want to fix up my emulators/preload/oil level set up a little bit. My racetech ".80" springs may be too soft for a 150lb rider?

[Rudeboy]

Originally posted by twf
maybe in your house :)
how much free sag you have(bike weight only) and how much total sag with you on bike?

umm.. ask racetech. :o

It's been single digits/sub 0 for the last 3 weeks. i.e. there will be no measuring ANYTIME soon.

I don' t know what I'm talking about or who I'm talking to for that matter. You seem to carry some reputability, whereas I sure as hell don't.. I've only been riding a year. That said.. racetech does require you to enter your weight to get a preload setting in their calc. When I said it was 'the law' I was just messin' (sorta) But damn!!!!!!! they gotta be close to it!!!!!! Atleast ballpark!!! You are saying it ain't so. :confused:

I guess your point is don't trust them 100%.. yeah I'd agree (If you know something they don't)

[dillweed]

It's not a matter of trust, they are just giving you a guesstimate, to help you determine how long of a spacer to use with the new springs. But you should do the calculation yourself.

[Rudeboy]

I don't know man, I'm probably making more difficult than it is.. and I'm sure that measuring is the only way of knowing but

bike weight + rider weight w/ a certain spring rate + ( maybe a fork rake multiplier and some other shit) = sag

the sag I mimagine would be constant so you should be able to calculate it, rake is pretty damn similar across the sportbike world they don't seem to fluctuate more than a few percent. (even if they don't calculate it for every make of bike)

So you are saying racetech can't figure out that? and that it's only a guestimate? yeah maybe.. but I bet it's more than pretty close. Unless their calc is that out of whack.. they should be engineers though..

[bwarbiany]

Remember one thing... It's not just weight... It's how you sit on the bike... For example, I'm tall, so I sit way back on the seat, and lean forward. This might put more weight on the front of the bike than if I sat forward in the seat, but sat more straight up and put less weight on my hands. Or, it could be the opposite and that's less weight on the bars.

Either way, to get correct sag, the *only* way to be sure is to measure. Race Tech can do some basics and get you close, but I've noticed their specifications are always pretty much the same, regardless of weight.

[Dom]

basically I'm leaving behhind a bike that had proper springs front and rear with cartridge forks and racetech gold valves that I had set up properly (sag and rebound and compression and all that) by someone who knew what they were doing so basically it was all dialed in. Now I have a bike I can't do much with and I wanna do as much as I can to get it set up without spending a ton of money.

[dillweed]

Originally posted by bwarbiany
Race Tech can do some basics and get you close, but I've noticed their specifications are always pretty much the same, regardless of weight.
Exactly......plug a bunch of different weights in, and see if their recommendation changes.....most of the time it doesn't

Plus they don't even know whether you have preload caps or not, and that changes the equation, because preload caps penetrate down further into the fork tube than regular caps do.

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by dillweed
Plus they don't even know whether you have preload caps or not, and that changes the equation, because preload caps penetrate down further into the fork tube than regular caps do.

You take that into account when you set the preload. For some reason I think they *always* recommend 25 mm of preload, but you make sure you measure the fork cap including the preload mechanism when you figure that 25 mm.

[Rudeboy]

Originally posted by dillweed
Exactly......plug a bunch of different weights in, and see if their recommendation changes.....most of the time it doesn't

Plus they don't even know whether you have preload caps or not, and that changes the equation, because preload caps penetrate down further into the fork tube than regular caps do.

ditto on above.. racetech does know the caps, and tell you to take those in account in the installation instructions.

[dillweed]

Originally posted by Rudeboy
ditto on above.. racetech does know the caps, and tell you to take those in account in the installation instructions.
right, but I thought we were talking about their website

[twf]

Originally posted by Rudeboy
ditto on above.. racetech does know the caps, and tell you to take those in account in the installation instructions.

do they tell you to figure extra 15 pounds or so?
I dont like their 25mm if that is what they say.

[twf]

Originally posted by csumd
This might be a good time to sneak in a question to twf. :D
Zoran, with your perfect shock setup, what springs do you use, how many turns on emulators, and what preload and oil level do you use? I think I weigh about your weight and I should be getting a Penske shock soon so I want to fix up my emulators/preload/oil level set up a little bit. My racetech ".80" springs may be too soft for a 150lb rider?

there is no perfect set up.
I use 700 pounds spring on my shock.
on front I have gsxr 750 forks.
but if I had stock front I would set base at .90 springs,initial preload 15mm,2.5 turns on emulator(4100 series emulator,not 3900 series),125mm oil level,traxxion oil blend 30W,rebound hole closed,compression holes drilled slightly bigger without aditional holes(as race tech recomends).
than I would ride bike and adjust from there.

ps.those springs .80 you have may not actualy be .80.sometime race tech springs dont measure what is stamped on them.if I was your weight I would use .85 springs at least,but that is me.

[dillweed]

For a street bike that isn't raced, a 150 pound rider could almost get away with using the stock springs, and just changing the oil. In fact many SV riders do. I am 150 too, and I have Racetech .80 springs.......I haven't heard of anyone my weight going stiffer than that on a street SV. If you get Traxxion stuff instead, they will automatically recommend .90 springs, but that is because they're biased towards racing setups.

[twf]

......I haven't heard of anyone my weight going stiffer than that on a street SV. [/B]

but did you ever try stiffer set up?
btw.you can use one size up or down from what you should have for your weight.that is 3 different spring rates right there.
you can use softer spring with more preload or stiffer with less preload.
I prefer later.
you can also use many different oils,choice of 2 different emulators,and 3 milion settings.
now you know why you can't find two suspension shops that will tell you same thing. :D

[bwarbiany]

Zoran,
I was just wondering what you weighed... You looked to be a fairly big fellow (at least for racing)...

I'm about 225, and on .90 springs in front, 700 lb/in spring in rear... Is that about right for street and occasional track riding?

[Dom]

so weighing about 160 (sans gear) and prefering a slightly stiffer ride would prolly mean I would prefer the .9 spring and .20 fork oil?

[dillweed]

Originally posted by Dominator
so weighing about 160 (sans gear) and prefering a slightly stiffer ride would prolly mean I would prefer the .9 spring and .20 fork oil?
nobody can predict what you'll like, but I'm betting you'd be happier with .80 or .85

[twf]

Originally posted by bwarbiany
[B]Zoran,
I was just wondering what you weighed... You looked to be a fairly big fellow (at least for racing)...



190 right now in retaired mode.
in racing season I am around 175 +gear.
like I said,you can use one size up/down.I like up.

[csumd]

so instead of 38mm emulators and ".80" race tech springs..

I should have used modded 41mm emulators, and
.85 or .90 springs, maybe not from race tech

my penske has 650# spring which should be right..I weigh 150.

I'll just ride now, fix it later :cool:

thanks for the tips zoran!!!

[chrdog]

ok, now that my penske will be here in a couple weeks or so, the front end is next on the agenda.

people are saying the bike will handle pretty crappy now that the rear is good and the front is not so good. is this true (its only gonna be used for commuting right now, plus weekend twists)? also, theres no 02 gsxr front ends for sale right now, at least taht i can find so im lookin into the racetech new springs/cart emu solution.

my problem is that im trying to build this bike up as a race bike (prayfully one day ill actually race :D ) and id rather spend the cash for the better solution (duh).

so in an attempt to hijack this thread :D , is the racetech solution good enough? or is it pretty standard to get the gixxer front end? btw i have a 2003 naked, is the 2002 750 still the best answer?

[Kurt'sSV]

Racetech forks are better than stock GSXR forks. GSXR front end gives you better brakes and you can still upgrade forks with ractech internals.

[Rudeboy]

Originally posted by chrdog
ok, now that my penske will be here in a couple weeks or so, the front end is next on the agenda.

so in an attempt to hijack this thread :D , is the racetech solution good enough? or is it pretty standard to get the gixxer front end? btw i have a 2003 naked, is the 2002 750 still the best answer?

I would get springs + oil

that's pretty budget when you feel like getting the emulators go for it.

my penske is on the way too ;) yaaaaahoo! 8-}

[Aeteocles]

Okay, so, I've been on the boards religiously since I bought my bike on Valentine's day. Anyway, I feel the bike's front end is waaaaay mushy--the bike dives really hard when I brake.

I want to put in Racetech springs and heavier oil--it seems to be the consensus on how to fix my problem. However, I live in a shitty little apartment near UCLA without a garage or any tools beside the basic screwdrivers and wrenches and stuff. Anyone in the area wanna be really cool and make a new friend? :)

If someone in the LA area would like to help me put in new springs and oil (maybe even an emulator), I'd be really stoked. I might even be willing to pay some for the use of your tools/garage/time etc.

If not, I guess I'll have to wait till the next LA maintainence day...which probably won't be for a long time.

[DOC]

I'll give you a hand but my weekends are filled up right now. If you're not in a hurry we could probably do it in a couple of weeks.
DoC

[Aeteocles]

I'm actually in no rush right now. I haven't even ordered the parts. All I need is the springs and some 20 wt oil right? I don't think i'm going to do the emulator mod just yet. I'm hearing that the springs and oil are fine for some people, and so no point on spending money on something I don't even know I need yet. I'll put the order in for the parts now that I know someone is willing to help me out there. Thanks a bunch.

Joe

[borrego]

I am wondering what oil level should be set with the stock 03 SVS fork springs + emulators.

I bought the Traxxion kit and plan to use it with the 03 SVS fork springs. The service manual says the oil level should be set at 94mm with the stock damper rod. It is a lot more oil than the 125mm that TWF is suggesting. Should I follow the service manual (because I am using the stock spring) or follow TWF's advice

Should the oil height be measured with or without the emulators dropped in? The racetech instruction only got the setting for the 99-02 SV.

[borrego]

The Traxxion kit was put in last evening. with 125mm 20WT oil and and sotck 03 SVS springs. I definitely could feel the improvement. I was thinking of using 15WT oil for my 150lb weight and the SVS springs. But actually the 20 WT oil I am using now could better match the Penske shock in the rear.

I forgot whether I set 2 turns or 2 1/2 turns preload on emulators. But I think I still need a little bit more compression dampening. I would recommend setting of 2 1/2 turns or even 3 turns

[twf]

what you need is stiffer springs.
.85

[borrego]

I actually found the SVS springs stiff enough for street riding at the end of the stroke. May be straight rate spring would be better to cure the initial dive completely.

But perhaps the dive SHOULD be more because I also have steel braided lines fitted to the front NISSIN 4 pod calipers :D

[terp21]

okay, i just finished the removal and disassembly of the forks with the exception of the damping rods (they will be first job for tomorrow) and i noticed that my new racetech springs are much shorter than the ones i pulled out of the forks, is this normal? or did they send me the wrong ones? the box and packing info all looks like they are correct.

2nd question for anyone that has done this already. aside from getting the damping rods out are there any tricks i need to know for day 2? i assume all i have to do is get them out, drill the new holes and widen the existing ones as directed and then reassemble as pictured. any idea on the new spacer length? advice on the emulator settings?

i am sure much of this is in the racetech instruction, but they can be confusing since they print one set for all bikes and you have to try and keep on the path for the SV. it's like a choose your own adventure book. any time saving advise will be greatly appreciated.

[bwarbiany]

Terp... I merged you over here... Lots of posts, and lots of tricks...

BTW what do you mean "much shorter". I seem to remember my racetech springs being shorter, but I don't remember by how much... But you do need to cut a different length spacer (from the metal piece provided in the kit) to set your preload.

[terp21]

so after reading this thread and realizing i had no easy was to get the damping rod out, i decided to do springs and oil only and see if that makes me happy, can always add the emulators later if needed. without doing the emulators it was really easy. did it all myself and only took about 3 hours total

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by terp21
so after reading this thread and realizing i had no easy was to get the damping rod out, i decided to do springs and oil only and see if that makes me happy, can always add the emulators later if needed. without doing the emulators it was really easy. did it all myself and only took about 3 hours total

Yeah... Those damping rods are a PITA...

[SVelocity]

Originally posted by terp21
so after reading this thread and realizing i had no easy was to get the damping rod out, i decided to do springs and oil only and see if that makes me happy, can always add the emulators later if needed. without doing the emulators it was really easy. did it all myself and only took about 3 hours total

Kevin if you had called me I would have helped you here.

Just changing oil and springs is what I did at first too b/c I couldn't get the rods out by myself...but two months latter...since I had paid for the emulators I was determined to put them in. Glad I did too. Hell of a lot better!

Chris

[terp21]

i had the bike all apart last night and didn't want any downtime as of today so waiting for help on the rods was not an option. if i couldn't get them off easy then this was gonna be the result, and so it is.

next time i have some anticipated down time for a day or two with the bike i will go for a full install, i'll let you know

now if you can help me get the damn lock washer flat on the front sprocket, we need to talk asap

[rmonk]

What's hard about getting the dampining rod out? Unless since you just did the spring and oil change you didn't remove the forks from the triples.

When I did my emulator install all I had to do was remove the hex screw from the bottom of the fork and then turn the fork upside down (of course this was after draining the oil, removing the springs, etc) and the rod came right out.

Drilled out the rods per the instructions, deburred them, dropped them back in... put in the heavier oil, new springs and spacer and all was done.

The whole process was actually a lot easier than I was expecting.

[SVelocity]

Originally posted by rmonk
What's hard about getting the dampining rod out? Unless since you just did the spring and oil change you didn't remove the forks from the triples.

When I did my emulator install all I had to do was remove the hex screw from the bottom of the fork and then turn the fork upside down (of course this was after draining the oil, removing the springs, etc) and the rod came right out.

Drilled out the rods per the instructions, deburred them, dropped them back in... put in the heavier oil, new springs and spacer and all was done.

The whole process was actually a lot easier than I was expecting.

You were lucky then...

Typically the hex nut will not come undone that easily from the dampener rod. Most people will end up spinning the rod as they try to get it undone.

This can lead to a very frustrating episode of trying to figure out how to hold the rod still with slippery fork oil all over it while trying to unscrew the nut by yourself. Usually a broom handle will do it but...

[DOC]

I believe that if you put the spring and cap back on, the preload of the spring will keep the damper rod from spinning, also an impact wrench helps a lot.
DoC

[nmiki]

I agree DOC!

That's what the Service Manual suggest as well....

Miki

[DOC]

Originally posted by nmiki
I agree DOC!

That's what the Service Manual suggest as well....

Miki Hey Miki, are you going to come ride with us this summer?
DoC

[nmiki]

DOC!

I'm afraid I can't,It would take a while to get there from here.
:D

Miki

[terp21]

selling my emulators, never installed. i decided to try the springs oil thing and see how i like it and it is a good improvement for now. i need the money from selling these to get new mirror, etc. to get my bike back in street legal mode after my crash.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7902662611&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT

[DOC]

Originally posted by nmiki
DOC!

I'm afraid I can't,It would take a while to get there from here.
:D

Miki Aaaah come on, I'll meet you half way.:D
DoC

[Chicago_SV]

They were ordered for an 03 SV650S are they the same size for an 2001?

[dodgy]

I just fitted emulators to my '99 SVS. Here's how it went.
I bought them from the local RaceTech dealer. He's a very experienced (and trained) suspension guy.
I just followed the instructions that came with them and took into account some of the comments people have made.

Drilled the extra 8mm holes in a drill press, the steel is pretty high tensile. Drill it slowly so as not to overheat the drill. De-burr the holes properly, the drill will leave swarf inside as well. I used a round file to clean out the inside of the tube.
I brazed the rebound holes closed. I asked the suspension doc about this and he confirmed they always do it on SVs because of the excessive clearance on the rod. I also cleaned up the top of the rods where the emulator sits. The top face wasn't very flat, and I can't imagine having a 'leak' past the emulator is going to help.
I think the emulators are pre-set to two turns, I backed them off then did the preload and this appears to be the case. If so it's not clear in the instructions. But they recommend two turns for just about all 'normal' riding.

Do they work?
Yes :D
The ride is much more 'secure'.
There is no real fork dive under brakes anymore, but the front doesn't feel 'locked up' either.
The front doesn't chatter or bump steer on small irregularities in corners.
The CLUNK is GONE :D :D :D :D :D :D
The ride is a bit firm at the moment but I think that's a spring preload problem...

Are they worth it?
Just... $150 USD for a couple of bits of brass, washers, nuts and bolts, and a spring is a bit steep. But you are paying for the design obviously. And as a quick, simple upgrade they are great...

[rkill77]

OK, I've just had my front and rear suspension sorted out...not sure if Im 100% happy with it yet. Definately a HUGE difference but whether its for the better I wont know until I go to the track on Sunday..

At the moment I have just two concerns..

I asked for the 4100 series emulator [4101RT] as mentioned in this thread but ended up with a 4121 - from the racetech sheet this is for a 83-87 XR350/500/600 --- seems a long way from home to me...
so the front is now
--.85springs,
--initial preload 15mm,
--2.5 turns on emulator 4121
--125mm oil level, 15W oil,
--rebound hole closed,compression holes drilled slightly bigger

Rear has the 97gixxer750 shock with a heavier spring on it and new gold valve .problem at the moment is that rebound is probably too soft owing the lack of custom pyramid/triangle shim stack as the guy doing it had nothing to go by... :/
he explained it like this
My shim stack
__________
__________
__________
__________
__________
__________
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp ___

Ideally should be
_____________
&nbsp___________
&nbsp&nbsp _________
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp _______
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp ______
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp _____
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp ____

Anyhow...can't make any real comments on performance until after sunday so I'll post more then.

-post ride report-
On the track - the bike was a lot more nervous than ever before but managed to hold the same lap times as before mods. Big difference was not being so sore at the end of the day and knowing I could have pushed A LOT harder and faster

On the road - not a problem at all, soaks up bumps a lot better front and rear and doesnt seem stiff at all. Canyon blasting is 300% more fun...faster and more stable.

[DOC]

Originally posted by Chicago_SV
They were ordered for an 03 SV650S are they the same size for an 2001? No! Different model forks. Showa vs Kayaba.
DOC

[Rocko]

anyone have the instructions that came with racetech emulators?

i bought some emulators second hand and have been trying to talk to a racetech technician and have called a million times but just keep getting their voicemails. :mad:

Thanks

[J.Moto]

Here's a how-to for installation
http://www.svrider.com/tips/emulators.htm

[twf]

if you do follow race tech instruction you better off buying new damping rods in advance because you will need them.race tech instructions are wrong and if you drill holes as they say you will screw up your damping rods and will need to buy new ones,and start all over.

[J.Moto]

TWF, can you explain how the holes are wrong? Mine were installed last year per the directions, but I've not noticed any problems. What sort of symptoms would be noticable by drilling the holes wrong, as per the Race Tech instructions?

[racinteach]

no they were not jay..they were done right

rocko drill out the four holes to 3/8....and solder up the small little hole at the top of the damper rod...

[Rocko]

the guy i bought the emulators from sent me the emulators and the damping rods.

I don't know if the damping rods he gave me were done right or wrong because I don't have the instructions to compare to. If I do find out they are wrong though, I still have the damping rods that are in my forks now....

also, i know i will have to cut some spacers from PVC pipe. anyone know what size PVC pipe I will need to use?

yo zoran, what do you think of the guys instructions on SV rider? he says drill to 5/16" and to not mess with the small hole

[racinteach]

I can check at home I have some laying around...if they have 6 holes they are done wrong( per racetech, not TWF style) ...if they have 4 and the small hole is sealed off you are good...

[J.Moto]

Rocko, those directions are spot on, except for the drilling the holes. If your damper rods are done correctly, it will be a drop out/drop in install and will probably take you around 30-45 minutes.

[twf]

Originally posted by supaPhatty J
TWF, can you explain how the holes are wrong? Mine were installed last year per the directions, but I've not noticed any problems. What sort of symptoms would be noticable by drilling the holes wrong, as per the Race Tech instructions?
if you drill 2 more holes as race tech tells you will end with zero rebound at last part of suspension travel.
when you hit good size bump at speed handlebar will hit you back in head.
also you will have chatter under hard braking.

[Jethro]

I have them. Saved them because they were informative.

I'll scan them when I can find them.

Check my album in a couple of hours.

Be safe,

J~

[harbiho]

Also check the comments in this thread:

http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=898

Again.....Zoran strongly advises that you NOT follow the racetech instructions of drilling 2 additional holes. All you need to do is to enlarge the existing ones and to weld or braze the tiny pin hole on top shut.

I think Racetech simply copies their instructions from their experience with standard bikes or cruisers. So.....don't follow the stock racetech instructions.

[Rocko]

just got off phone with racetech technician.

he said he will e-mail me the instructions.

he said to go with whatever the instructions said on drilling holes, and to not braise any holes (something to do with viscosity damping yadda yadda).

their website recommended .728 kg/mm springs
stock is .706

i am going to stay with stock since next spring rate up is 0.8 and stock is closer to ideal. he said to increase preload on valve by 1 turn to compensate. what thinks you?

[Jethro]

I went ahead and put them up. They're in my album.

If admin wants to move them somewhere for everyone to access, that would be cool.

J~

[J.Moto]

Originally posted by Rocko
just got off phone with racetech technician.

he said he will e-mail me the instructions.

he said to go with whatever the instructions said on drilling holes, and to not braise any holes (something to do with viscosity damping yadda yadda).

their website recommended .728 kg/mm springs
stock is .706

i am going to stay with stock since next spring rate up is 0.8 and stock is closer to ideal. he said to increase preload on valve by 1 turn to compensate. what thinks you?

Those are ideal spring rates for the average street rider. If you go to race-tech websites for their springs, you will get different spring rates depending on if you select street, sport riding, or racing. Dig? I believe I put .8kg/mm in my forks. (I was weighing around 180-185 when I put them in, now I'm around 160). Springs are easy to change out, so maybe try riding someone's bike with the heavier springs and emulators.

[twf]

Originally posted by Rocko
just got off phone with racetech technician.

he said he will e-mail me the instructions.

he said to go with whatever the instructions said on drilling holes, and to not braise any holes (something to do with viscosity damping yadda yadda).

their website recommended .728 kg/mm springs
stock is .706

i am going to stay with stock since next spring rate up is 0.8 and stock is closer to ideal. he said to increase preload on valve by 1 turn to compensate. what thinks you?
you realy want to know what I think about them :D
anyway,if you do follow those instructions before you put forks back on bike take one leg,put all your weight on it and compress it hard.you will see when you compress it all the way down how fast fork will spring back and than slow down.
this is where you go to suzuki dealer to buy new damping rods.

[Kurt'sSV]

When Steve Slaughter gave me these forks with the Racetech stuff in them, they didn't feel much better than my stock forks.

After getting them back from Zoran totally redone, I instantly could feel that they were massively improved. I think the only internal part we kept was the emulators - everything else he changed out.

[HoolieB]

Originally posted by twf
you realy want to know what I think about them :D
anyway,if you do follow those instructions before you put forks back on bike take one leg,put all your weight on it and compress it hard.you will see when you compress it all the way down how fast fork will spring back and than slow down.
this is where you go to suzuki dealer to buy new damping rods.

I am curious what RaceTech has to say about this. Have they been approached about correcting their instructions? If following their instructions causes one to ruin one's rods (hehe) it seems they may have a modicum of liability.

[twf]

they dont care about it.if they do they would fix it by now,it is only been 7 years since sv is out.
they are to busy selling parts to care if your forks work or not.

[Rocko]

Okay I searched the threads and couldn't find evidence, but I thought i've heard or read somewhere that a 636 shock has a stiffer spring than our stock shock. I have a 636 shock and am going to install it.

should i get stiffer springs in the front to balance out the stiffer springs in the back?

I went back to racetech website. when i said i was a street rider who liked standard stiffness level, they recommended a 0.728 spring rate. when i changed to say i was a racer they said just under 0.8 spring rate. when i said i was a racer who preferred stiffer springs that put it over 0.8. i'm starting to think maybe i should go with the 0.80 springs.

what do you guys think?

[J.Moto]

Dude, I told you to go with the .80 springs. :) I don't think the soft, stock front end will go well with the stiff rear end. I think the ride is a bit stiff on crappy roads when commuting, but that's just a trade-off for rock solid handling. I need to figure out how I should go about adjusting compression and rebound settings to get the best ride.

That 636 shock thread on SVRider I pointed you too discussed the spring stiffness (I think...it could have been a similar thread on SVRider). It is stiffer than stock.

If you want, you can ride my bike sometime so you can test it out (but you live kinda far away).

[twf]

what you weight?

[Rocko]

about 142

[twf]

.80 for street should work fine.
636 shock will be fine to.spring is 560#

[J.Moto]

TWF, if that's the case, why are people on SVR saying that the 636 is too stiff for those under 180?

Based on my experience (keep in mind I'm a rider of 1yr and 3 mos, and 2 bikes), it's not too stiff, however, I can tell you that it is a lot stiffer (and has a much better response) than the stock shock... for commuting, it's a pain sometimes, but for sporting, it seems to work well.

[twf]

too stiff for second generation sv.too soft for first generation.
based on 160-190 rider.

[centerline]

I just got done doing the race-tech emulators, springs and oil. It was very, easy to do with the right tools. Thought I would post a summary in hopes it helps others.


Bike - 03 SV650S

Myself - 195 lb. w/o gear, 6'-2".

Suspension mods - Racetech 4101 emulators. 0.85 springs. I used 15 wt Bel-Ray fork oil to start rather than the 20 wt.

Emulator set-up - used 2.5 turns preload. Call the extra 1/2 turn over the recommended setting my own personal "gut instinct" thing.

Disassembly of the bike front end was easy. Moving carefully, it took only about 30 minutes and everything was off the bike.

Definately use a impact gun to get the bottom bolt out of the damper rods. Note that the '03 (and probably '04-'05) have a 6mm insert here, not an 8mm. Just cut a long hex key and put it into a 6mm hex bit. Add a few adapters to get to the impact gun socket size - and your are in business.

In regards to modifying the damper rods, please see my discussion below.

I set my preload caps at 2 out of 5 and measured the distance from sealing lip to washer edge. It was roughly 32mm.

Following the racetech instructions, I measured the distance from the top of the fully extended fork tube to the top of the installed emulator, new spring and new spacer washer. This measurement was roughly 137 mm on the left fork and 136 on the right. With only 1 mm difference, I used 137 mm for spacer calcs and made both spacers the same. Note that my application only needed one of the two spacer washers shipped with each spring (used as the lower spacer washer). This is because the upper spacer washer is part of the preload cap assembly.

Using 137 mm, subtract the cap distance of 32 mm and add the 15 mm preload recommended by racetech = 120 mm. This was the spacer length I used. Note that racetech springs came with aluminum spacer material. Use a hacksaw and a miter box as a cheap way to cut a straight edge - just go slow.

Overall, reassembly was uneventful. Everything went together as easy as it all came off / apart. Just be sure to be gentle with the fork caps.


Damper Rod Modifications

Here is where I sort of messed up my game plan a little.

Anyhow, there are several variations on the damper rods mods...

Racetech says drill-out the four existing holes to 5/16", add two more 5/16" holes in specific locations shown on the instructions, and leave the small rebound hole alone. Note that on my '03, the existing holes are 5/16" anyhow.

Traxxion drills out the four existing holes to about 7/16" diameter and does not add any other holes. They also braze the rebound hole closed.

Many people on this site (i.e. Zoran) recommend drilling out the four existing holes to about 3/8" diameter and not add any other holes. They also braze the rebound hole closed similar to Traxxion.

I believe that the Zoran approach is the best approach. The overall cross-sectional area of the damper rod holes is about the same as race-tech - and much less than Traxxion. Thus, as a starting point for suspenion tuning, this is more conservative. Likewise, avoiding drilling the new holes (as per racetech) allows for longer fork travel before having rebound problems. That is, if the new holes are drilled higher-up on the damper rod, at some point very low in a nasty stroke, the fork tube could cross over the upper holes - thus, they become rebound holes and for a short distance and quick moment at the bottom of that nasty big stroke, the forks will kick-back a little distance without any real damping.

I personally wound-up in-between worlds. I MIG welded the rebound hole shut. But; before I realized what I was doing - I had drilled out new holes a la Racetech method:eek:. I think it was simply because the instructions were in my face at the time and my mind was already thinking about reassembly.

After much study, I concluded that the difference in inner shaft travel before the new holes compromise a rebound stroke is less than 3/8" from the Traxxion and Zoran methods. Thus, it is at the extreme of suspension travel that this difference between methods is realized. I think that I can live with the racetech method (since it is already done anyhow!); however, I am somewhat of a perfectionist and these types of things really piss me off.

Later today I am going to take the bike out and test it. I will post again later on the experience. Also, if I ever experience a problem, I will post that as well - with a reference to list thread.

[SVNerd]

Nice post - but perhaps better placed (MERGED) where there are already EXCELLENT threads on this topic (inclusive of late model 03+ information):

http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=898

http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1017

http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11522

It would be nice in fact, if one of the site's administrators/moderators would take the time to consolidate all the Racetech emulator threads - and there are several more than the ones listed above ... and a consildation of the spring-only related topics.

[centerline]

I didn't go merged because there is so much info out there. It took in hours of reading just to get a "big picture" understanding of the job - let alone filter through discussions for small details. Consolidation would be great! In lieu of that, I do prefer more info than too little though! This site is the best.

While I am here, please let me clarify one thing about the preload caps. When I said I initially set them at 2 out of 5, I mean that I have 3 more "notches" of preload to add (and 2 "notches" of preload to subtract).

Haven't been out to test things yet - or measured up sag yet.

Most importantly, I have to see if two of cool racetech stickers they gave me will look good on the bike somewhere (have them - must use them:D ).

[centerline]

Late post - started getting sick with cold same day as mods done and my head was getting sort of dizzy. Took the bike out for a ride yesterday instead when I was feeling more stable.

There is a very noticeable difference in how planted the bike feels. The bike feels totally different. Much better. I haven't yet gone out to flog the thing - but so far I would say that the mods are a "must do" for an SV650. Worth every penny.

Let me say this based on my engineering background... springs alone would do a great job of correcting the softness of the system for a heavier rider (like me:rolleyes: ). Heavier oil affects the damping of the system and again helps in some ways depending riding style - not necessarily overcoming the shortcomings of the system though. That is, the design of the stock SV fork system is one that gives only a compromise between high and low speed damping. You change the fork oil - you just shift the damping along a range between high and low speed control. Emulators by design add the ability for the system to handle low speed and high speed damping differently - more controlled. Put the spings, oil and emulators together - and you have a more complete solution!

If anyone out there is debating how much to do - go the distance. This forum is the best and you find the help you need - should you need it.

[K. Moore]

Got my emulators (Thanks Brad! Speedy service).

The instruction sheet does not cover my bike, called Tech Support- line is eternally busy. Plus some of you have prolly fiddled with these some and found your own set up.

So- before I fillet this thing I'd like to get my ducks in a row.

Need info on:

1- Is a Custom Spacer for the top of the damper rod nec.?- Yes or No. If Yes- need measurements so I can spin one up in the lathe.

2- Prefered oil weight/s. (stock and .80 springs)

3- Prefered oil level.

4- Spring preload height missing from table 2 (measured from the cap sealing lip to the top of the tube).

5- Drilling the rods- anything special or just follow the directions.
***

I'm 145lbs, aggressive street riding if that helps.

Thanks gang for any input.

:D

[K. Moore]

Sorry for missing this thread. :( Ooops

'03 SV650/S- 3000 miles on it. (nippontoy's old bike)

*Springs: .80

*Top caps: Loosen them after loosening the top clamp bolt while the lowers are still tight.

*Damper rod mods:
I enlarged the holes as stated in directions.
I went this way as the lower (additional) hole draws fluid from lower in the leg, and, increases the total area the fluid is drawn from, and, it may decrease cavitation and packing- IMHO.
The rebound hole at the top is so small I can barely see it. I just left it as is. Oil will follow the path of least resistance anyways.

*Emulators:
Installed the circlips to cut down on wiggle room, and, resulting chaffing and(possible)oil contamination. They fit great on top of the damper tubes- no special spacer nec. I just popped them in, no fiddling.

Damper rod bolts:
I reused the copper washers by flipping them up side down to getta fresh surface. They came right off w/o and impact. They were very snug, but, they cracked loose no problem- I cracked these loose *first* before I took the springs out.

*Oil:
15W, 110mm from top, no springs. Emulators installed. Take the time to stroke the fork before and after you install the emulators and bleed it well.

I filled it up to an inch or so over the top of the damper tube and stroked SLOWLY untill the air was gone and the level quit changing. Mark the outer of the stantion with a Sharpie 110 (or whatever level you want) mm from the top. It will get you in the level ball-park faster.
Plop the emulator in and rebleed then fill to the outer line on the tube, then, dip stick it and turkey baster to the level to desired.

*Pre-load spacers: I cut mine with 5mm protrution

*Pre-load adjusters: backed off all the way.

* Top clamp protrution: 5mm

Results: modified it Sat night. 180 miles of canyons, sweepers, hi-ways on Sunday- The difference is like night and day. Literally. It's smoother, faster and more planted. 100 mph plus used to be gnarly. Now- it's rock stable. mid-turn bumps are no longer the issue they were, sag and dive are good, and, most importantly it feels balanced. I'm running the rear shock on the stock pre-load setting. Even the stock tires are now getting the workout they need. Before it was less than confidence inspiring, now, you get incredible feed back- from both ends now. I've read on other sites this mod is not worth the time and trouble- Bullpuckey. IT is.
It Way is. The fork is killer now- not an embarrassment. You may get "lucky" with springs and oil only. But if you don't, yer taking the fork off and dealing with it all over again. Why not just spend the extra 150$ or so and do it right the first time, and, HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE SUSPENSION!!!. :D

I've had the bike a week- and, this is the first mod I've done, and, I'd do this even before getting upgraded tires. Even Rennsports would not have made this much diffferance, when the front wheel is flopping around like a carp on a dock. :p

*

Many thanks to 'racinteach" for hunting down the springs, and, letting me use his 'pit area' for a "stop-and-go". ;)

Thanks to Brad at Race-Tech for an incredibly simple system that brings about dramatic results. :cool:

Thanks to CSR in San Pedro for the oil sponsorship. :love:

[NRE_03SV]

Do Racetech Emulators make a big difference?

I rode GTI20VTURBOs SV650S last week with Racetech Emulators and Diablos and it rode 100% different than my SV650S. Is mine just not adjusted well or was it the Racetech Emulators? It rode more like an F4i. Has anyone added them and found them to make an amazing difference? They appear to cost about $150.00 Anyone know how huch they cost to install?

Neil

[racinteach]

yes...well worth it..

[NRE_03SV]

Robert,

So what would that setup on Nippon Toys Bike cost with Labor?


Neil

[SVNerd]

Neil - worth every penny: I've offered my bike for you try also ...

You really also want to go with springs suited for your weight, and probably change the fork oil to something a little heavier than what Suzuki put in there.

We can discuss what's involved on Sunday. If you were inclined to do it yourself, you'd be welcome to come over and use my stands, tools, etc.

[NRE_03SV]

Thanks Jim,

The .80 springs on GTITURBOS bike, which used to be Nippontoys bike seemed like the right ones for my weight. I believe the post said it was set up for a 145lb rider and I am not too much over that.

Neil

[gti20vturbo]

I cranked up the front spring preload to just beyond half way the day you rode it Neil. It seems to work well for my weight too (190). When Chris (my wife) rides I pretty much back the preload screws all the way out.

The big thing I notice between Chris's bike and yours is while leaned over her bike can deal with an irregular surface much better (no pogo stick action).

[racinteach]

.80 is what you should have...

[NRE_03SV]

I guess I probably should do this. It would be like having a different bike without actually changing bikes.

[ADRATH]

I read throught the threads on here pertaining to this but just wanted to pose a quick question. I don't race but I do ride fast enough (most roads here are straight) I have sonic springs and a used GSX-R rear shock. Am I stupid to not install the emulators also? Do they provide that much more on tops of springs and oil for the cost? Thanks just a quick answer is cool. Thanks guys/girls

[p1choco]

For money you spend it is worth it. Very noticable difference.

[harbiho]

Emulators are worth the money spent.

Also......you can post the same question in the emulator thread.

[ADRATH]

ok thanks for the merge. I was going to install these items before this winter but maybe I'll hold off and buy the emulators and install it all next spring.

[SVSmiles]

So I separated my forks to see about removing the "Bottom Out Cones" as per Traxxion and Zoran's recommendation and even though the forks internals look fairly clean while they're apart I want give them a proper cleaning. The Traxxion instructions state to use a "Contact Cleaner" and I'm curious if that's essentially the same stuff as brake cleaner, which I happen to have plenty of? If not, anyone have recommendations as to what brand cleaner I should look for at an auto supply store? And BTW, I plan on leaving the Oil Seals where they are since they look perfectly fine (only 6K on them) and Zoran said that if I leave them where they are after separating the inner and outer tubes (to get at the cones) the seals could be re-installed for continued use. Will these contact cleaners have any adverse effect on the rubber components (the seals) as I clean the forks?

Also, I'm curious, can anyone explain what the color variation shown in the following pic is about? Why does the metal of the bottom portion of the inner fork tubes have a gold/copperish hue and then changes to the chrome slightly higher up. I could make several guess at this, but it would be interesting to know for sure.

http://www.socalsvriders.org/albums/albup60/SVSmiles_DmpRodBolt_17.jpg

Oh, and for those in the know about this, does the variation in levels (as indicated by the green arrows) mean anything important?

[curley]

contact cleaner - like from an electronics store
CRC makes some:

http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com/crc-industries-03130-11oz-qd-contac-cleaner.html

you removed the oil locks - be careful on bumpy tracks/roads - you could have a mechanical bottoming out ( metal to metal contact) that may break things

Some brake cleaners use chlorinated cleaners - stay away from those ( may be outlawed in Ca.) - would suggest you use the contact cleaner above.

Rings? - tolerance stack up/ an error in assembly caused an un even wear pattern to exist - check you assy procedure/stack up of assembled components.

good luck

[twf]

that is not wear or assembly error.
there is just no coating there,it does not need any.

[Darth Lefty]

Are these "bottom out cones" the bump stops? And if so, isn't removing them a really bad idea?

[twf]

they are hydraulic lock for guys that weight more than bike is set up to handle.once you set up your bike you dont need them.

[curley]

like zoran said - in the old days the factory engineers put them in for the "average" rider - we used to drill them out or remove them - just don't go desert racing without them