Legal Advice

[SVSRyder]

OK.. kinda a tricky one here.

In september 03 I let my brother(forum name LoneDog) take over payments on my SVS. He rode it back to cali (santa barbra) and got a ticket for the plates (seeing as they are oregon plates still.

here is the tricky part though.

The bike, due to his negligable credit... is still in our name. so he cannot reg it in cali..and since my residence is Oregon as well as my license.. I can't reg it in cali.

Now, the verdict from the judge was tough shit basically..and fined him $180.
Today, he was again pounced on by the cops..this time no fix it ticket..but verbal threats..etc. to impound the bike..blah blah

so I need ideas as to what we can do here. We've consulted the finance company..but they are brain dead as the courts. I am hoping people here might have a thought or two as to possible ideas we can use on this...


thanks for your feedback.

[Burst]

YOU can register it in Cali, and add his name to the registration. Use his address.

[SVSRyder]

tried that..per the DMV, we have to be citizens of cali though with a valid cali license..which we don't have.

we can't put my bro on the reg because it is financed in our name :(

[mastrind]

I don't understand, so forgive me, but since the bike is in your name and has plates and registration that match you, what's the problem?

Yeah, so what your brother drives and makes payments (on your behalf). He's simply borrowing your vehicle. I lived in VA for 3 years driving a vehicle with NJ plates and reg. I never heard anything from the cops, even when getting a ticket.

Simply put, he doesn't own the bike, but he is allowed to use it. I don't see what problem the cops have with him. Unless he has other issues (ie no license, no ins, etc.)

(I also assume that once the bike is paid off, it'll be his bike.)

[Tillers_Rule]

I too dont see what the problem is:confused: It sounds like your bro is getting tickets and just needs to pay them, how will transfer of a title change that:confused:

[soulofadra6o]

maybe his riding is causing him to get pulled over...maybe the cops dont really care that much about the plates but mention it when they pull him over for something else...can u really get a fix it ticket for another state's plate? what if it's in the mail? that sucks

[jhlkstr]

If the cops see you riding the same vehicle for longer than a few weeks in Ca they will pull you over. Any vehicle in CA longer than 60 days has to be registered in the state unless there is valid reason (military college etc) borrowing your brothers bike won't work. If the bike has less then 7500 miles the state wont let you register the bike here unless you are the one moving here. If you purchase it with less miles from out of state they wont let you register it.

Your brother must stick out like a sore thumb to get this much attention from the cops. The best advice- take it back and sell it to someone in OR before he gets you involved through the registration issues or legal.

Jhlkstr

[SVSRyder]

lol, well I dont want to take it back.it is all he has for transportation :( and I can't afford to buy him a car.

as per sticking out..lol, well..he is 6'6" and is riding an sv with bright yellow plates..so ya..perhaps :P

sadly, the rule for registering out of state vehicles isnt even 60 days..its 10.

I dunno, guess we will figure something out.. perhaps painting the plates white and blue?? lol

[Burst]

I drove my truck in Cali when I came back for two years with CT plates... never had a problem. Not even when I went to register it with the CA DMV. I dont know why they are bustin his stones over this....

[SVSRyder]

$$$

[mojo mofo]

Bottom line is it is your bike, registered properly in your name in your state of residence. Regardless of who is riding the bike, I don't see how anyone can have a beef with the bike. It seems like you got shafted by that judge and I would appeal if possible. I would probably threaten a harrassment lawsuit if your brother continues to be a target to the police.

[Kurt'sSV]

Originally posted by mojo mofo
Bottom line is it is your bike, registered properly in your name in your state of residence. Regardless of who is riding the bike, I don't see how anyone can have a beef with the bike. It seems like you got shafted by that judge and I would appeal if possible. I would probably threaten a harrassment lawsuit if your brother continues to be a target to the police.

Did you smoke crack before you posted this? Mojo, the bike is being used on California roads for a prolonged period of time but it's registered in Oregan. CA is a dick about stuff like this and they've got DMV codes up the ying-yang to back it up. They make it a bitch to register stuff here so they can make more money. Personally, I think 'Ryder and Lonedog are just fucked unless Lonedog can lay low.

[Tillers_Rule]

Originally posted by Kurt'sSV
Personally, I think 'Ryder and Lonedog are just fucked unless Lonedog can lay low.


So you're saying he should always ride around in a full race tuck:confused:

[Loyolan]

FYI, I registered my 49 State, Colorado R6 in California with less than 7,500 miles. I asked the DMV inspector about the 7,500 mile rule during the VIN check, and he said it was B.S. So I don't quite know where the notion of this 7,500 mile "rule" came about, but I think we can disregard it.

[Kurt'sSV]

Originally posted by Loyolan
FYI, I registered my 49 State, Colorado R6 in California with less than 7,500 miles. I asked the DMV inspector about the 7,500 mile rule during the VIN check, and he said it was B.S. So I don't quite know where the notion of this 7,500 mile "rule" came about, but I think we can disregard it.

Really? Must be an old wives tail . . . . . . like no swimming after eating . . . . . . or you should use your rear brake to stop.

[RobSD]

Originally posted by SVSRyder
tried that..per the DMV, we have to be citizens of cali though with a valid cali license..which we don't have.

I'm nearly certain I've registered a vehicle in California with an out of state license. Might want to double check - ask two people at DMV the same question and you usually get two different answers anyway.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/osreg.htm#BM2559

"Complete an Application for Title or Registration (REG 343)
Submit your out-of-state registration certificate
Submit your out-of-state title (If you have it)
Provide evidence of the California Smog Certification
Provide an odometer mileage certification (If your vehicle is less than 10 years old)
Bring your vehicle to a DMV office for verification of the vehicle's identification number (For your convenience, we recommend that you schedule an appointment by calling your local DMV )
Pay the fees"

I don't see anything about having a CA license.

I've never tried to register a 49-state bike but the 7,500 mile rule is for real:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/osreg.htm#BM2561

[i]"California residents are prohibited from importing, purchasing, or leasing a new vehicle from another state, unless the vehicle was manufactured for sale in California and the Environmental Protection Agency label certifies the vehicle has California smog equipment. California considers a new vehicle to be any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer at the time it is purchased or aquired."

[CrowLaw]

From the DMV website www.dmv.ca.gov

~~How long do I have to register a vehicle from another state or country?

Nonresident vehicle owners who move to California must register their out-of-state vehicles in California within 20 days of the date they accept employment or establish residency in California.

If a resident of California aquires a vehicle from another state or country, fees become due the date the vehicle enters California and must be paid within 20 days to avoid late penalties. ~~
~~~~~~~~~~

What this means is that "you" are a nonresident of this state who happens to have a vehicle in CA. You as the owner of this vehicle, should have it registered in your name, at your address It is all about the Domicile state where the true owner resides.

Your brother, here in CA, should have a CA driver's license and could obtain insurance for the motorcycle, with comprehensive and collision coverage, naming your lienholder and you both as additional insureds. He will have to shop around, but could get a broker to assist with this dilema if done properly.

It is a catch 22 because the bike has been here for the statutory period requiring it to be registered; it is available for regular use to your brother, in fact he's technically (not legally) an owner by possession.

Have you considered a refinance naming him as primary and you as a co-signer? This would solve the legal quandry you've created, and might help your brother re-create good credit by making payments in his name. Yes, it will cost more with higher interest for the brother, but may save money in the long run by avoidance of law enforcement.

I'm not an attorney, so I cannot give legal advice. I do suggest you visit the DMV website for additional information and you may want to consult with an attorney in CA if you feel further action is necessary.

The aforementioned is soley for informational purposes and the reader is responsible to verifying such information.

Good Luck!

[mojo mofo]

Originally posted by CrowLaw
It is a catch 22 because the bike has been here for the statutory period requiring it to be registered; it is available for regular use to your brother, in fact he's technically (not legally) an owner by possession.


Hey Kurt, stfuplzkthx :D

This was my point, Kurt. The law applies to the residency of the OWNER of said vehicle. Following the DMV wording, there shouldn't be an issue.

[jadeblue1]

ok-since you're in a catch 22, you've done the best you can to abide by the rules for registration, have you considered having lonedog get a drivers license in oregon, using your address for his license?

i got pulled over once after i moved to CA with my michigan plates still on my jeep. the kind & helpful chp officer was bawling me out until i handed him my michigan driver's license. he asked me if a i was a resident yet, & i told him i was trying to find a job before i changed residency, "cuz CA was so expensive... he said, oh, well, when you become a resident, you have to switch everything over. i said thanx....

i registered my jeep & changed my license 6 mos later, when my registration was due for michigan. never got crap or a fix it ticket.

[mojo mofo]

But how much leg and cleavage were you showing? :raise:

[Owen]

"Aquiring" usually means purchased. A Californian (new to the state or existing) must register vehicles within 20 days.

I don't think we are getting the whole story. Here is the deal:


Responsibility of moving violations is with the driver, non moving violations are with the owner of the vehicle (and are transferable). I can't follow who's name is on what legal document with your description.

Whose name is on the registration?
Whose name is on the title?
Whose name is on the financial papers?

If your brothers name does not appear on the registration or title, a judge would have never made him responsible for the fix. Frankly, a judge should care less who's name is on the loan (and why would you say anything about it anyway?).

If your brothers name is on the registration, but not on the title you should be able to get Oregon DMV to issue a new reg without your brothers name. At which point there is nothing that the CA would make him a legal owner, and all he needs to do is to go to court and say that the bike is not his. Done, over, case closed. Remember, non moving violations are transferable. Then it's your problem, which should be no more difficult that writing a letter that says that you are the official owner of the bike and you official residence is in Oregon along with copies to back it up.

If your brothers name is on the registration and the title, then you need to fully remove him from the ownership documents then go to court or you need to register the bike in CA and pay the fine. The legal argument is similar to the guys living in WA and working in OR. Both states have the right to screw you out of fees and taxes. Your goal at that point is to try and stay one step ahead of who is giving you a hard time. Since it's getting pulled over in CA, you need to remove CA's claim to the fees (your bro's name on ownership documents) or fix what CA says is wrong.

There should be no problem with the financial company either way. While they do have a legal issues and must see that every registered owner is on the loan papers, the reverse is not true. Typically you can add as many cosigners as you like, and there is no requirement for them to even be listed as "owners". All it means is that they are legally liable for the entire amount of the loan.

The address of record is, well, just that. It's an address. It's on record. That's where all official correspondence is sent. You should be able to make it a post office box in Florida for all they care. Regardless of the address, every signer of the loan is responsible to see that the entire amount of the loan is repaid. You are equally liable for the amount with your address as you are if you use your brothers address. Just like your brother is equally liable regardless of where the current address of record is. On the loan, the bike itself should be identified by the VIN. Once again, no problem with the state of registration. If your loan agency wants licsence information, they should allow you to change the information on record.

If the dork on the other end at your financial institution wont help you, get the manager involved. If that still doesn't work, use a different bank.

O

[SVSRyder]

Whose name is on the registration?
Whose name is on the title?
Whose name is on the financial papers?

My wifes name is (since she bought it for me when we were dating)

Finance company (was GE Capital but is now..someone else..)

Again, my wifes name.

Alot of good feedback here. I do appreciatte it.

The problem with california is that in order to reg the bike, yoiu need to be the licensed/registered owner. If you dont have a cali license, you have to get one in order to reg it cali and be on the registration. (I had the same problem moving the bike up here with Oregon)

The finance company, while 'wiling" to put my brother on the reg... woulkd also jack our interest rates becuase of my bro's lack of credit... if they would allow it at all (banks are funny like that :()

*sigh*

[soulofadra6o]

ok i have a solution that might work...y dont u get paper plates from the dealer and put them on....sure it's not CA plates but im sure he'll have less hassle because "it's in the mail"

[3_AM]

Hey,

I have a similar situation but in reverse...

I bought a used car (in San Diego) for my folks to use up in Oregon last year. I had to register the car in Oregon even though I live in San Diego. I think the rule is that the vehicle has to be registered wherever it is being used and not where the owner resides. (I don't have an Oregon driver's license)

The car now has Oregon plates because it is being used at my parents address. The mailing address for all paper work comes to me in San Diego, though.

I don't know why you're having a problem with registering down here in California. Where ever you fill out the Driver's license portion of the paperwork, just put in your Oregon DL #...

I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. If not, I'll be happy to try and clarify for you.

ambrose

[Lonedog]

problem solved it can be registered in cal.

and i have begun the proses all ready.

as for the legal issue it is simple.

any vehicle being operated in the state of California by any person.
for any period grater than 3 weeks.
must be registered in the state of California.

after which any vehicle ether parked or being operated on any public roadway or highway with out of state registration is subject to fine and impounding after a year.

now that's not the letter of the law but is close enough to make my point.

as for finance co. all they really want is THE MONEY!

so they are more than help full when you tell them what you need before they get any more money.

simple as that.

P.S. getting pulled over 2 times in 14 mounths eqwates to my being a bad rider how?