Oscillating idle when cold

[klw]

Hello,

I bought a new 2003 SV650s Suzuki around Sept and I've been having a problem with cold-start idling. The idle oscillates between 500 and 750 rpm until the bike warms up for a minute or so. The shop tells me that this is normal. What do you guys think? Is it normal for the SV650's idle to oscillate this much when cold? It runs fine after warming up.

Thanks~
===
Karl

[tsRider]

well, mine never did that. it is probably colder up there tho.

how many miles are on the bike?

[DOC]

Your idle rpm seems a bit low. What rpm does it idle at when warm? You might want to turn it up a bit.
DOC

[klw]

The bike has about 800 miles or so. The low temperatures in the SF bay area this time of year are in the 40's or 50's. When I got the bike, the idle was about 1500 and the shop said that was too high and lowered it to 1200.

Thanks~
===
Karl

[tsRider]

i agree with doc. i would up the idle rpm and see if that lets the bike run smoother when cold.

either that, or maybe after the engine has run for long enough for oil to fully circulate, roll the throttle some to break out of the oscillation....? i would hold it at 1500 for ten seconds and see if it did anything

[klw]

When I got the bike, the idle was around 1500 and the oscillation was slightly better. Right now, after the shop "tuned it up" during the 500 mi service, the lowest part of the oscillation almost stalls the motor and then it picks up again. It makes some "rough" sounding noises when at that lowest part of the idle and I am worried that long term it may damage the motor. What I am concerned about is whether I ended up with a lemon or not. It is still under full warranty and, as far as I know, I could be eligible for another bike. I really don't want to go this route but this problem just doesn't seem right. I have owned several bikes over the years but NONE have idled like this. Again, after warm up, it runs great.

Thanks~
===
Karl

[DOC]

If someone "tuned-up" your ride it should run correctly. If not ,the work wasn't done properly. When the motor is started cold it should go into a "fast-idle" mode. When I start mine cold it idles at 1400-1600 rpms and then when it warms up it drops down to 12-1300. This is what it should be doing anything else is incorrect. A motor will be noisier when it's cold because everything is loose. When the parts warm up they expand and the clearances tighten up and the motor becomes quieter. This is normal. You might want to try a different mechanic/dealer.
DOC


Ps: There will be some slight idle variation, it won't sit exactly at 1200 rpms. Throttle synchronization will help with this but don't expect it to run like an electric motor.

[BioTek]

Mmm...ran fine when new and then after someone dicked with it then it started playing up? There is a very distinct pattern.
New mechanic needed.

[klw]

I appreciate all the info! It sounds like this cold start idle problem can be fixed by someone who knows what they are doing. I think my best bet is to try another dealer/mechanic.

Thanks again for the advice~
===
Karl

[DOC]

I checked my shop manual and yes there is an adjustment procedure for the fast idle mechanism. If your bike idles at 1200 when warm and 750 when cold this device is out of adjustment and needs to be reset. It's easy enough to do and any competent mechanic should be able to do this. You will need to find a mechanic that can read a repair manual however.:p
DOC

[klw]

Thanks DOC for your efforts, looking into this problem I am having with cold-start idling. I will be trying another dealer for sure, for my servicing. They are a bit farther away but hopefully more knowledgeable. I looked at the shop manual and saw the procedure you are talking about. I hope to eventually do most of my own servicing as that is what I've been doing with my previous bikes.

Thanks again!
===
Karl

[DOC]

You're welcome.
DOC

[bjm669]

FYI,
After reading some of the posts on the malfunctioning fast idle, I wanted to share my experience. My 2003 SV had the same low/rough ide on cold days. I knew from the manual that the fast idle mechanism wasn't doing what it was supposed to.

I attempted to adjust the fast idle screw per the repair manual. I don't recommend doing this. It is overly compicated and involved a voltmeter and wire splice. After this failed attempt, I took it to a reputable Suzuki dealer for them to take a look at. They were clueless and of no help.

I ended up just incrementally adjusting the fast idle screw at each cold start until the mechanism started funtioning. It is a really hard screw to get to if you don't have the air box off. You will need some kind of angled screwdriver. About five small adjustements and I was good to go. You will know it is functioning properly when the cold start and drop down rpm occurr in the rpm and collant tempature ranges shown in the Suzuki repair manual. If you need these specs, let me know and I will post them.

You can actually see the cold start cam move at startup. Start the bike on a cold day and see if the cam moves out and slowly moves back in as the bike warms up. If not, the fast idle screw is so out of adjustment that it doesn't function.

I bought my 2003 SV as soon as they came out. I know Suzuki had overseas deliver problems at that time and were late with the SV deliveries to dealers. I suspect that they rushed these out of the factory without tuning the fast idle.

[SV650sk3]

I had this problem, and the TRE fixed it!?!?

[DOC]

Originally posted by bjm669
FYI,


I ended up just incrementally adjusting the fast idle screw at each cold start until the mechanism started funtioning.
Interesting!
DOC

[klw]

Thanks for the added information about your similar experience with your SV AND your solution to the problem. It sure sounds easy enough to do. Which way do you turn the fast idle screw... in or out... AND how much each time? I would be great if you could post those rpm and coolant temperature range values, for the warm-up period after a cold start.

Thanks again!
===
Karl

<I had this problem, and the TRE fixed it!?!?>

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "TRE"?

Thanks~
===
Karl

[Tom]

TRE:

http://www.sv650.org/ig_retard/ignition_mod.htm

and more links on this thread:

http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=29263&highlight=tre+mod

Shouldn't have anything to do with the bike idling funny though.

Block warmer on cold mornings, maybe? Or tire warmers on the block before starting? :D

[bjm669]

I don't quite remember which way I turned the screw, but I remember having to turn it both ways before I figured out which was the right direction. If my memory serves me right, clockwise got the fast idle up.

I did 1/4 or 1/2 turn adjustments until I got the high rpms at cold start. The ranges from Suzuki Manual:
-At 23F ambient temp fast idle should be between 2,000 -2,600 rpm.
-At 59F ambient temp fast idle should be between 1,900 -2,500 rpm.
-At 77F ambient temp fast idle should be between 1,800 -2,400 rpm.

- Fast idle cam should be completely returned to its 'off' position when coolant temp is between 104 and 124 degrees. Once the fast idle has turned off (closer to 124 degrees for me), the bike idles about 50-100 rpm low until you hit about 170 degrees. That's when the idle hits 1300 and stays there.

You can't really hurt anything if you make too much of an adjustment or turn the wrong way at first. Worst case is that the fast idle will stay on even after the bike warms up. In that case, just turn the screw back a bit. Just need a very short screwdriver with thick handle or a angled screw driver. Take a look at the adjustment screw before you buy a screwdriver for it.

[hornet]

snap on makes a tune up tool for carb work on cars it is about 16 inch. long and makes a slit turn about 30 deg. one end has 1/4 inch. drive the other a knob to turn it with if you need a Phillip screwdriver tip they sell those in 1/4 inch. drive it shoul reach in there. i have one if you cant get the dealer to fix it right. and you want to do it your self cont. me i will ship it to you. when your done you can ship it back. i am a ret. mech. i know how hard it can be to find someone who is competent to fix even the smallest of problems. as far as splicing in to the wire there should be whats called a test plug just an open plug you can insert the tip of your dvom. it to. if not find the plug to the wire take a Small Gage wire strip both ends pull the plug apart insert the wire plug it back together and your set.

[klw]

Thanks guys for all the information! I can't wait to try this procedure. And I WON'T let the dealer do it. I've had too much of a negative experience with the dealer I've been going to. It is ashame because you would think a dealer that has been around for over 35 years ought to be competent... but they are NOT. They even messed up changing out tires on an older bike I have. I got the tires home and mounted and the next morning one was flat because they pinched the tube.

Anyway, again, thanks for all the useful information. You've all been a GREAT help!

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Karl