Do I need a Power Commander?

[rwalterk]

My 05 R6's notchy throttle response in the turns is annoying. I've learned to ride around it but there are times when it makes me timid. I want to get a slip-on can but with the extra air going through I know it means I'll need a fuel management system. Has anyone else had the same problem and noticed a big difference (smoother throttle response) after installing a Power Commander? Has anyone used the Cobra system that I just saw in Motor Cyclist?

[HoolieB]

I did notice a difference with smoother throttle response (both on-throttle and off-throttle) after installing the Power Commander in my SV.

[Versone]

Just get it already....:p

I rode my buddies R6 and I did notice the throttle is a little twitchy compared to my f4i....but that's the price to pay for riding a spanking new supersport... :mad:

I think the powercomander might smotth out the fuel injection map regardless of whether you get pipe.

[jimt]

From everything I've heard the Power Commander is the way to go.

I think that when Sport Rider did the 600 comparo this year they complained about the same thing with the R6.

A kid that I worked with has the same bike as you and he put on a full system and a K&N filter and a PC. He was really happy after he did the mods.

Then he crashed the bike doing wheelies!:squid:

Hes now in Iraq, I don't know if he did get the bike fixed.

[Manx]

If you're experiencing low-RPM twitchiness, a TRE might be useful. Of course, the R6 is a twitchy bitch anyway...

[flyinfizzer]

Did you take all the slop away from the throttle? That'll definitely help. and best of all...its free. :D

[Delcati]

I don't know about the R6 at all, but I HAD a Mille, the RPMs would jump all over in first, then in low RPMs all the way up. I installed the PC and opened my airbox at the same time. One way or the other, it smoothed out after I did that. Not quite to sure which one fixed the problem, or if they both did it. In addition, if you do that, I lack the mental capacity to do all the other required things that go along with that, so I had my licensed dealer work out the details for me. Free of cost because I got the PC through them.
Just a thought.

[MotoFool]

Tech question:

Does installing performance exhaust lean out a fuel/air mixture enough to be of concern as far as damage to the engine. My SV1000 has F/I, but is not closed loop as you may know, and so the machine's computer has no way of knowing the mixture has been changed from factory tune. I have not yet installed a high flow air kit (K & N) , and do understand a PCIII or re-map is eventually required for full performance.

So, question remains...will just the install of the slip-ons hurt the engine?


Please accept my apology if this has been discussed previously. I cant find anything that specifically addresses this question elsewhere on this site

[J.Moto]

This whole post confuses me greatly....

btw, is there a TRE on your-now-my bike?

edit: this post of mine is now out of context as motofool's post was merged into the previous thread.

[Kurt'sSV]

Originally posted by MotoFool

So, question remains...will just the install of the slip-ons hurt the engine?


No.

[copperdopper]

So what are the widely accepted benefits of the PC111. I put a slip on 3 years ago and then K&N air filter but have been debating the PC111 question for a few years.
So its around $300... okay so it might smooth out your throtle control but I don't really have an issue with mine. Yes I understand the general concept, remap the engine for a new can and inproved flow in and out. Does it increase mileage??? give you more power??? or is it just the right thing to do ??????
PC or not PC????? hmmmmm

[smokescreen]

you don't "have" to get the PC, you can just have your stock ECU remapped.

[copperdopper]

okay so I could just get my factory ECU remapped but why does everyone rave about the PC111 so much. Is it smoother throttle, better mileage or increase power...??? I wanna feel the hype here people :confused:

[soulofadra6o]

you can tune it easier....just plug in the computer and do a map if your going to a change of climate/elevation and wanna get the best out of the bike..rather than going to the dealer everytime and paying x amount of dollars for them to do the remapping...plus it's a plug n' play system..so if you convert your SV back to stock for any reason just take out the PCIII and you'd have all the stock settings

[copperdopper]

Plug and play that sounds like a women I used to know lolo
Thanks for the info

[suzie-blue]

After a snorkelectomy and install of a Leo Vince slipon - the bike runs just as good as ever - at least as I can tell. But a local shop owner and long-time aquaintance just saw my bike. We talked and I told him how one of the more prominent Ducati/Suzuki/Yamaha shops in Seattle says I need to get my fuel injection retuned - remapped due to the changes I have made, or hurt the motor. They say they need $130 and 1.5 hours with my bike.
My local bike shop owner laughed and said unless my bike is backfiring or turning my exhaust pipe blue, I am getting plenty of fuel. He said all he would recommend would be to unconnect my battery for 1.5 hours and reconnect it. IF the injection system did not already adjust for the changes, that would take care of it. He says his maintenance guys are aware of other shops who charge for this 'unplugging', and call it remapping.

If you are going to tell me to use the search button - can it. Already did and didn't find answers to these questions.

Thanks for any help you can give. Honey? Vinegar??!

[codzilla70]

Sounds like that prominent dealer in Seattle got that way by ripping off thier customers.

[Ikazuchi]

By increasing airflow and not increasing fuel, your bike will be running lean. On a car the electronic fuel system will often adjust (as much as it can) to compensate for lean/rich conditions.... but I don't know if the fuel system on the SV is that sophisticated or not.

Either way, your buddy is right...it's not running lean enough to cause a problem. You could get slightly more power by increasing fuel, but you for sure won't hurt the engine.

[SVNerd]

You won't harm the engine with your mods - that was BS.

Please note that your pipe (near the cylinder head ends) is likely turn somewhat blue, as these bikes are tuned lean. Waaaay lean. The PAIR system will compound this further.

This lean-burn quality (established for emisisons), is going to be enhanced even further (that is, MORE lean) by any mods that improve air flow through the engine - including airbox mods, exhausts, and the like.

The SV's FI system will compensate for intake air temperature and pressure, but NOT the air/fuel (A/F) ratio as function of exhaust oxygen content. In that sense, the SV650's FI system is open-loop. SV1000s are different (dependent on the model year).

Lacking this feedback, this type of FI system cannot compensate automatically for your mods - which will affect the A/F ratio.

Because the SV650 has an open loop FI system, disconnecting the battery will have NO effect on the FI mapping.

The best solution is a PCIII and a custom dyno tune mapping. This approach will ensure the optimum A/F ratio for your mods, as well as linearizing AND mazimizing the power attainable as a result of your mods.

[racinteach]

what sv nerd said above...except you can get away without a power commander..some shops have a yosh box that can help adjust you mapping ..not perfect( that's where a PC comes in, but gets pretty close) .

[suzie-blue]

would the $130 add any longetivity to the life of the motor? Or will I feel or hear a difference. It would be worth it alone if the motor would run better.. Thanks again you guys!

[codzilla70]

I put a shortened slip-on, removed the snorkle and put a BMC air filter in my race bike without any FI adjustments and rode the crap outta it and the only damage to the engine was from a crash. When it was rebuilt I was told that the insides were fine as far as wear and tear.

[Natedawgg]

Originally posted by SVNerd
The best solution is a PCIII and a custom dyno tune mapping. This approach will ensure the optimum A/F ratio for your mods, as well as linearizing AND mazimizing the power attainable as a result of your mods.
I was told by Crago Racing that buying a PCIII was a waste of money because the EFI is mapable. So they re-mapped my EFI for my Yosh pipe but didn't try to install a PC.

[Darth Lefty]

Running closer to the ideal ratio is only going to be good for the engine. Too lean = hot, too rich = gunky.

Your mileage will suffer.

Aside: for some reason people in the rocket biz do not say "lean", they say "oxidizer rich". :dunno:

[suzie-blue]

52 mpg. and I am 6'5" 270lbs.

I have had only one soft backfire in 2000 miles - there is a very subtle burble - but I don't know if that is the pipe or not.. the backfire was coming down a very steep mountain rode and used second gear to keep the speeds within legal limit of 35.....

What takes 1.5 hours??

[Know Talent]

Originally posted by Natedawgg
I was told by Crago Racing that buying a PCIII was a waste of money because the EFI is mapable. So they re-mapped my EFI for my Yosh pipe but didn't try to install a PC.

As already mentioned, the SV fuel:air is open loop so some sort of remap is in order when installing a full race pipe with opened up airbox.

A PC is a waste of money in my opinion as it does not offer noticeable gains over a factory remap using a yosh box or what ever Suzuki Techs use.

I initially ran a PC with a dyno tuned map and it started acting whacky from off idle so I removed it and went with a Yosh Box burn. You aren't going to notice a difference on the street and I'd be willing to bet your lap time variation will be greater effected by rider skill vs. power curve differences.

In the end it's your money

[suzie-blue]

intake sound, would my a/f mixture be better off with the snorkle back on, as to having it off. I don't want to loose the Vince pipe though.

I can barely hear the intake honk with the vince on.

[codzilla70]

Backfire was prob from the PAIR system and the full exhaust, nothing to worry aboot.;)

[Tom]

Originally posted by codzilla70
Backfire was prob from the PAIR system and the full exhaust, nothing to worry aboot.;)

Pop quiz: what would cause a bike to backfire after the ignition is turned off? :D

[codzilla70]

Accumulation of unburned fuel in the exhaust system after the engine has been turned over several times with the spark plug wires reversed. :o

Oh yeah, its also good for instantaneous throttle body removal.;)

[Know Talent]

Originally posted by Tom
Pop quiz: what would cause a bike to backfire after the ignition is turned off? :D

through exhaust or intake?

[ADRATH]

You don't need to do any sort of re-mapping or PC stuff with a slip on.

[suzie-blue]

or leave it off?

Better question: If I have the snorkel off and slip on on - am I pushing the envelope of lean? Would it make much difference to put the snorkel back on? Last question. .....:rolleyes:

[SVNerd]

You're not pushing any envelope here ...

Originally posted by Darth Lefty
Aside: for some reason people in the rocket biz do not say "lean", they say "oxidizer rich". :dunno:

Forget N2O - I'll take LOX any day:

http://www.doeblitz.net/ghg/

(Scroll down page for LOX fun)

Thread jack over.

As stated previously - several times - doing nothing isn't going to harm your bike.

OK - Yosh box burn (remap), or PCIII: either way is likely an improvement IF properly mapped. Yes, a map (regardless of how its implemented) to richen your bike to get the A/F ratio dialed in for your mods, will probably reduce your mileage. The gain for this is usually more power and a cooler running motor.

Is it worth it ? That's up to you. Why invest in performance mods, if all you're worried about is mileage ?

The PCIII is nice, in that it allows YOU to make adjustments or changes, without affecting the original factory map (say when you sell the bike, and remove the mods - to sell separately).

If the PCIII were a true "waste" of money, the bike community (market) would have discovered this, and crushed DynoJet's PowerCommander many years ago.

Why do these services cost ? Because dyno tuning takes time - its not a 10 minute thing. Doesn't matter what re-map approach one takes.

Please note that there are other products in addition to the Yosh burn and the PCIII that can acheive the same results.

Oh, and what codzilla70 said - some people like the popping on decel, some don't ... nothing to really worry about.

[harbiho]

Originally posted by suzie-blue
............................If you are going to tell me to use the search button - can it. Already did and didn't find answers to these questions. .............
Thanks for any help you can give. Honey? Vinegar??!

Use the search button! You'll find this thread!!!:p

J/K...................

Your mods would get you to the threshold of a very lean A/F mixture. The current colder temp can also be a reason why you are not currently backfiring much.

Do you absolutely need it? Maybe not.

Will it kill your engine? Doubt it.

Will your bike run better.....more power and torque if you remap.... you can bet on it.

So.........what did you end up doing with your handlebars?

[suzie-blue]

sounds like I need to remap. ..

I tried a pair of super motos that I tried stock and shortened, then a pair of clubmans, I am looking for a pair of Suburban Machine 2's now.

Thanks guys!!

[Know Talent]

Originally posted by suzie-blue
sounds like I need to remap. ..

I tried a pair of super motos that I tried stock and shortened, then a pair of clubmans, I am looking for a pair of Suburban Machine 2's now.

Thanks guys!!

check the plugs and see how they look

if they're really light brown going toward white ...you're lean

[suzie-blue]

Also, I am back to the stock bars until I can swing the SM2 bars. I wish I could find a reasonably priced set of Duc Monster bars. When I rest on those - they feel great for me....

[newbmaster]

Originally posted by SVNerd

Please note that there are other products in addition to the Yosh burn and the PCIII that can acheive the same results.


What other products? Are they more affordable?

[Know Talent]

Originally posted by newbmaster
What other products? Are they more affordable?

Teclusion Box, Teka SFI, Cobra, Yosh YAFMS/EMS, etc...

Lots of options out there,

The more elaborate such as the PCIII allow very fine tuning which requires extensive dyno time to eek out a few ponies on the SV650 engine... the partial throttle.

[Velcro]

I'm ordering a M4 full systems exhaust and am wondering if I'll need a power commander? I've heard people say if you have a full system and no power commander the bike will run to rich. I've also heard that some brands dont require them. Does anyone here have any experience with this?

[Nighttrain]

I don't have the M4 system. However, since you are talking full, you will probably need the power commander. You should call the manufacturer and ask if they recommend it.

You could install the system, ride it and see how it rides. You will know then whether you need it.

I bought a power commander for mine and I only have a bolt on. I did notice an improvement in the throttle response, right away.

[Velcro]

Thanks for the input Nightrain. Whats the worst thing that can happen to my bike?...meaning what type of problems could I come across by not having one on there at first?

[Kurt'sSV]

None.

[SVNerd]

You won't have any "problems" per se.

I have an M4 full system (on my SV650). I also have a PCIII. If anything, my bike ran slightly leaner (overall) without it. At some RPMs it was richer, and at others leaner.

Of course, the SV1000 experience will be different (how exactly - I don't know), and the '05-and-up will be different again from the '03-04 SV1K models.

On the 2005 and UP SV1000, I believe these have a full O2-sensor feedback fuel injection system, where the stoichiometric (air/fuel) ratio can be preserved. This - I believe - requires that the battery be disconnected, and then re-connected after the new pipes are put on.

Note that the '05-and-up SV1K FI system is not "adaptive" per se, and will not re-map for optimum power over the entire RPM range. This is where a PCIII and a custom map can make a big difference: by flattening out the throttle response (making it "smoother", especially at lower RPMs), and giving you optimum fuel delivery (for maximum power) at any RPM.

BTW - If you do get a PCIII, DynoJet has a "generic" map for M4 full system for the '05-and-up SV1K.

http://www.powercommander.com/324-411.aspx

[curley]

engines suck and blow - you're only doing half the job- if you get an aftermarket air cleaner and remove the snorkel - you'll likely need a powercommander to help with the A/F ratio - Powercommander has a data base of "maps" on their web site - map m324-005 looks like it's set up for your bike with a M4 full exhaust.

[Nighttrain]

Originally posted by SVNerd
You won't have any "problems" per se.

I have an M4 full system (on my SV650). I also have a PCIII. If anything, my bike ran slightly leaner (overall) without it. At some RPMs it was richer, and at others leaner.

Of course, the SV1000 experience will be different (how exactly - I don't know), and the '05-and-up will be different again from the '03-04 SV1K models.

On the 2005 and UP SV1000, I believe these have a full O2-sensor feedback fuel injection system, where the stoichiometric (air/fuel) ratio can be preserved. This - I believe - requires that the battery be disconnected, and then re-connected after the new pipes are put on.

Note that the '05-and-up SV1K FI system is not "adaptive" per se, and will not re-map for optimum power over the entire RPM range. This is where a PCIII and a custom map can make a big difference: by flattening out the throttle response (making it "smoother", especially at lower RPMs), and giving you optimum fuel delivery (for maximum power) at any RPM.

BTW - If you do get a PCIII, DynoJet has a "generic" map for M4 full system for the '05-and-up SV1K.

http://www.powercommander.com/324-411.aspx

Yeah, what he said. :D