Fuel Injection Tuning

[corsastrada]

My name is Keith Curry and I'm the owner of Corsa Strada Moto Accessories, Inc. We donated the Starcom1 Helmet Communication System for the Holiday Raffle. We are looking for Fuel Injected SV650/1000 so that we can write software for our new product, the MotoCard. The MotoCard is a fuel injection controller similar to the TFI and Powercommander. It is "load based" and delivers optimal tuning in all gears. It has OEM connectors so there is no wire tapping or splicing. It is brand new and has only been on the market for about a month. We have been developing the MotoCard for different bikes and we are now developing it for the Suzuki SV line of bikes. To do this we need to test it on fuel injected SVs. If you have a fuel injected SV650 or 1000 we would like to talk to you about testing our unit on your bike. We will be offering units at half price to the riders who let us test on their bikes. The unit retails for $279.99 for the SV650/1000. You can check out our press release in December's (2005) issue of 2 Wheel Tuner on page 18.

If you have any questions please ask on this thread and I will post my responses.

[jperkey]

Seems a lot less expensive thant the PowerCommander - does it have the same capabilities? Advantages? Disavantages?

[TheForce02]

i live in la puente. let me know if i can help!!!

[sdlnxgk]

I'm interested since I was gonna put a power commander on within the next couple of months

[corsastrada]

Sorry for the delay in my response. Here are some answers to the above questions since my last post.

The biggest difference between the powercommander (pc) and the MotoCard (MC) is that the MC is "Load-Based" and the pc is "RPM based".
First I will explain the pc. The pc reads two pieces of data from the bikes electronics...RPM and Throttle Position (TPS). The pc (typically) is plugged into the bikes main wire harness. It taps into one or more of the bikes environmental sensors. It then manipulates the signals those sensors send to the ECU so that the ECU adjusts the pulse width sent to the injectors and either adds fuel by increasing pulsewidth or subtracts fuel by decreasing it. The fuel map is basically a 3D table/graph that the ECU has stored in its memory. The main map consists of 3 pieces of data, RPM, MAP (Manifold Abosolute Pressure) and pulse width. Some engines don't use MAP but rather MAF or another method of decting the intake air flow entering the engine, which is really engine load. The ECU reads the sensors that tell it RPM and MAP and then pics the pulse width it has stored in its memory that intersects those RPM and MAP numbers. It then checks environmental sensors, like engine tempurature, air temp, maybe a O2 sensor if it is closed loop, etc. It has another table that it matches the date it reads from that sensor and then modifies the pulse width. The pc modifies the signals for those sensors and so it manipulates the final pulse width sent to the injectors. This is a problem because when the pc is tuned it is tuned base on RPM and TPS which has nothing to do with load. Do you think your bike needs the same fuel in first as it does in sixth? Not a chance! The engine load is totally different. But the power commander adds the same fuel in first as it does in sixth or all the other gears for that matter. Because it is RPM based not load based. The other problem is that if you fool with those sensors you are reducing the bikes ability to use the sensors correctly.

The MotoCard reads RPM and Injector Pulsewidth (or load). The MC plugs directly into the injectors after the ECU so the ECU does everything it should and reads sensors as they really are then computes a pulse width. The MC reads that pulse width (load) and how many pulse widths over time (RPM) right at the injector. It then modifies that Pulse width. This way the bikes load is taken into account.

So both systems modify the pulse width. The pc does it based on RPM and TPS and so pays no attention to the engines load. It is also tuned on a dyno in one gear for full throttle, usually forth, so fourth is tuned great but 1-3 and 5,6 are not tuned properly. The MC modifies the EFI based on load that the ECU already calculated. So it is tuned in every gear. The only difference between gears is load, RPM still work the same and TPS works the same, the only difference is load, which the pc does not consider. The MC does.
For example, in neutral when you rev the engine, the pc will add fuel based on RPM and TPS (what a waist) it can't tell what gear your in or if your in neutral, but the MC will not because there is no load on the engine.

The MC also has a cruise mode, acceleration mode and full throttle mode. If you are light on the throttle it will remain in cruise and you will get good gas milage but less power. If you rollon the throttle the acceleration mode and eventually the full throttle mode are activated and full power is released adding more fuel for all the air you just added.

And if that were not enough, the MC will control nitrous and add fuel to compensate. It will also sense boost pressure from a turbo or supercharger and add the appropriate fuel. The nitrous and pressure features are not available on the base unit but are an option because most people don't use them. This keeps cost down for the majority of people. The units are the same but with an extra connector for nitrous and a pressure sensor and tubing for boost.

The MC is light weight and the size of a credit card and only a quarter of an inch thick. It is not a brick like the pc. It has a 2 year warrenty and can be adjusted by the end user/rider on the fly while you are riding if mounted in view of the rider (just watch the road!). If you change from pump to race gas you just press a few buttons on the faceplate of the unit on the side of the road or where ever you are and you are ready to go. You would have to reprogram your pc with a laptop with a new map to do that.
If you want to turn it off you don't have to unplug it (like the pc or put in a zero map) you just turn the faceplate settings to 0 on the side of the road or where ever and your EFI is back to stock.

Wow that was a lot. Hope that answers all questions. But if not let me know. If your a critic...bring it on! This is a forum!

If you would like to use the adjustment demo of it click the link below:

http://tuning.motocardproducts.com/gen3/motocard/demo.asp

Oh no it's Friday night at 11:30 and I'm on a forum. Not cool. Ok it's time for the Hideout Bar. Later.

[twf]

man,I realy love my flatslides :D

[LowSpdWobble]

Originally posted by twf
man,I realy love my flatslides :D

Wats a flatside?

[corsastrada]

A type of carb.

[mother]

How does the MC get the RPM data? If it is plugged into the injector, is it just reading the number of injections/time and comparing it to the pulse width that has already been chosen by the computer? If this is the case, how will it help if the computer in the bike has already chosen the appropriate pulse width? Or is the computer in the bike wrong? Or am I wrong?

[corsastrada]

The ECU computes a pulse timing (corrisponding to RPM, so 10,000 pulses per minute is 10,000 RPM) and a pulse width (the actaul duration of the pulse, for example 2.3 milliseconds) that is how long the injector is open. The MC reads these two pieces of data and does its calculations based on them and the information/program stored within its memory.

The fuel map inside the ecu was developed by the engineers at the bike manufacture. If there were no EPA or Euro standards the the fuel injection would be tuned for best performance. But our environmental friends don't care about performance they care about clean air. Nut cases, clean air who needs clean air, clean air is for cowards. :D But if they didn't I wouldn't have a job because the bike manufactures would have left no room for improvement. This is the reason the pulse width computed by the bike's ecu is not what it should be for best performance. These bikes have to pass emissions at the factory or where ever they do before we get them (or maybe just in the development phase of the fuel system). The pulse width is shorter than it should be because the epa wants leaner burning engines that pollute less. In almost all cases a bike needs to have a longer pulse width in order to provide the right amount of fuel to burn with the oxygen. All bikes are lean from the factory. Lean is a relative term. Some are more lean than others and there is a reason for that. The more bikes a manufacture sells in the USA the more strict their pollution requirements are and the leaner the bike is...which means some bikes have more room for improvement than others. MV Agusta for example (I have already finished the tuning for the Brutale 910) is very close to optimum. On the other hand I have tuned a '04 GSXR600 and found that it had a lot of room for improvement. Similarly, I expect that there will be a lot of room for improvement on the SV since it is a mass produced Suzuki.

The only cases where bikes are in need of a leaner fuel curve is on bikes that were originally equiped with an "exup" valve or exuast power valve or what ever the manufacture calls that valve in the tail pipe that reduces sound emissions (I believe sound emissions are its primary function, but there are other reasons too I believe). I say originally equiped because they do not need to be leaned out when they still have that valve, but only when that valve is removed during the installation of a full system. Which is in my opinion is a waste of money unless the bike is a full time track or race bike and you are always way up in the rev range. When you remove that valve you will seriously screw up the fuel curve down low and part way up the midrange. You will get better top end because it flows better but your bottom and mid range will blow. Not all bikes have those valves so I only say this about the bikes that do. At this time the SV does not. So if you have one just get a slip-on, you'll be happier and your wallet thicker. The fuel curve will bounce back and forth from rich to lean in the low and midrange then smooth out in the top end. The reason it does this is that the ecu was programmed with that valve in the exuast which opens and closes at certain times to lower sound emissions and subsequently increase back pressure. Take it out and the stock efi will bounce back and forth between rich and lean until the top end when the valve is alway open. This is generally how they work.

[racinteach]

color me intrigued...I would be game

[corsastrada]

I'm gettin some great response. I'm looking for SV650 and 1000 from the year they began ('03 for the 650, not sure what year the 1000 arrived) to current. I would like to test a 650 and 1000 from every year in the following states of tune: stock bike, bike with slip-on and bike with full system. When I write the program I allow room for the end user (rider) to adjust the MC for use with a stock bike (Stock), bike with Slip-on (Stage 1) and bike with full system (Stage 2). The user can adjust the MC using the LEDs and buttons on the unit right on the bike with no need for a computer. So if you have a stock bike then you add a slip-on or a full system then you just press a few bottons and your ready to go. No need to have it reprogrammed or buy a new one. I am offering the unit at half price plus tax for a total of $151.54. Installation and tuning are on me. This is only for bikes I have not already tested and tuned. So you need to be the first for your particular year, bike (650 or 1000) and state of tune (stock, stage 1 and stage 2). I will update which bikes I still need next week. Right now it is open, but I am talking with a few of you already about next week. Thanks for you interest and help.

[corsastrada]

Here are some install pictures on an '04 GSXR750. This is the connector found on almost all Japanese bikes. The SV should be the same.

[corsastrada]

Here is the unit mounted on the triple clamp of the GSXR750. Unit does not have to be mounted here, it can be stowed out of sight.

[corsastrada]

I just finished a SV1000S today. It had been debaffled so I'm still looking for stock, slip-on and full system bikes to test on. Deal still the same for those bikes. I will be doing a 650 with slip-ons Friday.

[illustr8dman]

I'm very interested and could be down there Mon. or Tue. I have an '03 Svs with a slip on and a few other goodies.

[corsastrada]

The shop is closed monday but tuesday would be great! They open at 10:00am. Oh, and I should mention this to everyone, your SV should be in good working order. That means a bike that has gotten all of its services and not been neglected. Clean air filter, throttle body sync...etc. the usual. If the bike is not tuned properly then my baseline settings will be off. So please make sure you take care of your SV. I just worked on one Friday and the air filter was filthy and it screwed up all my readings and is sucking good power out of the bike because it runs so rich. I also noticed that the 650 snorkel is way to small and I recommmend either removing it or replacing it with a 1000 snorkel which is much larger.

[illustr8dman]

Hey The Sv1K snorkel is one of my extra goodies but I'll make sure the filter is clean and while I'm at it I'll do the Earl and Philter.

[timeadc]

So I'm intersted.

I have a weird SV setup, so you may or may not want to try the card out on my bike:
'04 SV650s, properly maintained,
Stock exhaust,
timing retard eliminator installed (the bike thinks it's in 6th gear all the time, I can take this off easily),
K&N air filter and SV1000 snorkel,
and, I just installed the 4degree timing advance key.

Let me know, I can drop by on Tueday around 4:30 in the afternoon.

[kc1717]

let me know if you want to play around on a modded cbr1000

[Lui05SV650]

I will donate my baby for the sake of science and technology!!!

2005 SV650 with Full Yoshi Exahust

Let me know, Luis - 520 466 9836 - HerpHobbiest@yahoo.com

EDIT NOTE:

I have 2100 miles on the bike and I would think everything is in excellent working condition.

I have the Power Commander III USB and I would really like to test the Power On Demand on your MotoCard.

I have a near new high flow air filter and I have removed the air box snorkle.

[luckyphil]

Do you wanna test it on a bog standard '03 SV 1000s from Australia? I dunno what messy logistics would be involved, but from your blurb, this unit sounds like a big improvement over the Power Commander...I'd be more than happy to test the unit downunder!:cool:

[corsastrada]

Well I'm done with the stock SV1000(s) application so I have units ready to ship. If you have a local shop that I could talk to I would be very gratefull for some contact info.

Also the SV650 in stock condition and with a slip-on are also finished and ready to ship. Or be purchased at 2 Wheel Tuning in Arcadia, they also do installation of the MotoCard.

[corsastrada]

luckyphil,

Actaully I am planning on coming to Australia next month to setup new dealers down under, so we may be able to work together. I'll let you know when my plans are finalized.

[Peiell]

Is it possible to see dyno curves with and without, and compared to the pc?

[Manx]

Aw, looks like I missed out. :sad:

2003 SV1000s, mostly stock (see "mods" list). The snorkel could go back on and the TRE could be removed... Let me know if you still need access to this bike. :D

[racinteach]

corsa PM...

[soulofadra6o]

can i trade in my PCIII for the MC? then you can do a custom map for me...all free of charge of course :D

[corsastrada]

I'll do a custom map for you but you need to buy the MC.

[racinteach]

you have to realize soul is pretty cheap...( being a student and all)

[rbuzaleski]

Do these fuel management products have any advantages for a bike with stock exhaust/air filter/etc.? Any power gains possible from just remapping a basically stock bike?

[racinteach]

a remap can tune the bike to run better in certain ranges...with or without exhaust this card will help your bike as well..the idea behind it is better then a power commander..

[soulofadra6o]

Originally posted by corsastrada
I'll do a custom map for you but you need to buy the MC.

can i trade my PCIII for your MC

[apropos]

Has anyone gotten this and can do a review for the SV?

[racinteach]

I was suppose to get one...but never heard back ...

[illustr8dman]

I have one but have not yet gotten access to a dyno. The seatomypants meter says it's got more pep, but that's hardley scientific!

[motorgroove]

I also got one of these cards. No dyno run yet either, not sure how Keith set up the card, i guess just A/F only by taking it up and down the street.

Anyways i didn't notice any real increase in power, but power delivery seems smoother from 5k and up.

I did notice mileage went down, used to get around 150 before the light came on, but now getting closer to 120 to 125 before it comes on, riding style didn't really change except for the 1st week that i had it :p

[seftonbass]

i had debaffled my stock cans and they backfired a lot. when i got the MC, the backfiring stopped completely. no matter how high i would rev and release, it would have a smooth decel. no dyno either, but 2 wheel tuning in Arcadia will do it for $40.

[Rooster]

SV 650 03 -tre mod,pair valve removed,no snorkel,BMC filter,Full M-4 system,Idaho 2200 feet ASL
Interested?

[npereira]

So any news on this motocard?

gains? Worth the $$?

How to adjust?

[seftonbass]

it has been agreed that if you're going to get a fuel injection enhancement device, the motocard beats the power commander.

[soulofadra6o]

damn if i didnt get the PCIII for xmas i'd get the motocard to replace it

[sdlnxgk]

Whats the deal??? the webpage is still down!! Would be interested and have been waiting to see if this product is better then the Power Commander and worth the wait..