No Such Thing As A Difficult Road

[Dragonhawk]

I've read a few newbie threads on various motorcycle forums lately and it has inspired me to write a little rant about so-called "difficult roads" to ride.

Here is the gist of what I need to get across: There is no such thing as a difficult road, only squirrelly and inexperienced riders!

There is one reason and one reason alone that newbies whine about roads that are "technical" and "challenging"; because they are going way too fast for their skill level. Period.

You think a road is "difficult" to ride? Then ride it again ... and try doing the speed limit this time. WHOA! Look at that! The road just got WAY easier, didn't it?

I'm sick of you "Valentino Rossi wannabes" who scare yourselves to death or say a road is "hard" to ride. Bull. There is no such thing as a public road that is hard to ride. It's only hard BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE DOING! You're hitting turns too fast. You're taking blind corners without leaning enough. You're rolling on the throttle through downhill decreasing-radius curves. In short, you riding like a freakin' idiot who doesn't know how to safely control your motorcycle. Stop it.

Heck, freakin' Lombard Street isn't a "challenge", as long as you don't ride like an moron.

[NukleoN]

Given a fixed skill level and bike, the amount which you have to 'slow down' for a given road could be said to be its difficulty level. Any road is easy if you go slow enough...but too slow and it can increase the difficulty level...such as braking through a downhill twisty (better to roll on through any turn). Of course, that's poor technique so I understand technique isn't the issue here.

A wide, uphill, increasing radius, positive-camber road with great visibility and perfect asphalt on a dry, warm day is going to be 'easier' at more speeds and for more skill levels than the narrow, off-camber, blind, decreasing-radius, potholed and lumpy downhill road with cracking, poor-quality asphalt (on a warm, sunny day but on the shady side of a mountain).

The reason one has to slow down is *because* of the difficulty. ;)

Some turns seem to suggest a sweeper and then end up being a tight, decreasing-radius twisty...these catch people out all the time. I would deem this a 'difficult' turn because it requires enough skill to hang with the road or enough restraint not to enter the turn too fast (assuming it's a new road for someone). Point being, a road which 'tricks' you is more difficult than one that does what it seems it should do with the ideal turn being one you can see through.

Also, I'd rather ride 'fun' roads a little faster than crappy 'difficult' roads at a snail's pace...I know preferences vary..but I prefer higher speed sweepers with good pavement and turns I can see through. ;) Could be because of my style and the type of bike I have...I like uphill tight twisties too such as Little T as well since I can see through many of them.

Oh yeah, I've ridden Lombard (and other San Fran streets) on the SV...hella fun...and a little scary hehe...CRAZY terrain.

A good rider can ride any road, but we will all have our preferences for roads we think are more 'fun' than others...and this is based on the type of rider you are and the type of bike you ride.

[spasonatwin]

heheh come ride 191 north up from morenci on a sport bike(here in southern AZ)... then you'll certainly see a good counter example to your rant. ;)

The argument has merit, but it sounds like you've never ridden a tough road heheh. Seriously, though, there are roads that -are- quite tough, regardless of skill level or pace. Distance, weather, terrain, fatigue, traffic, condition of the road itself, all that good stuff comes into play. I personally watched two people go off on 191 whilst going a few mph under the speed limit (a posted 25-45 depending on the stretch). They were both excellent riders, they just got caught out on the nastiest set-up corner I've ever seen (I've seen a few, too). After 80+ miles of difficult, technical corners and elevation changes, they we all were EXHAUST... and they were lured in by a gentle mountain right hander... that started to pitch downhill slightly... then started to tighten up.... then tightened up for what seemed like the apex... then tightened up again, and promply went over 10 degrees off-camber (15 in the other lane) and whipped back around in the other direction... but not enough to cover the edge of the hill it went around. Scary shit... no warning, except for the cross on the OTHER side of the corner (the blind side) with the picture of the dead motorcyclist from a few years back.

Of course that's just one example, but there are most certainly sneaky, tough roads out there to ride along on a motorcycle. Most roads are engineered to be friendly to motorists (slightly banked turns, extended visibility, run-off, etc). There are a few out there that are not. You don't have to haul ass to find that out. I road home in the snow last night, for example.... that was the toughest road I've ridden in a while. It was the same route I always take home, but you can bet your ass it wasn't the same ride. Another dramatic example, but I'm certain you get the point.

Try not to get into the mindset that if you just ride (what you think as) 'smart' or easy, that you will avoid calamity and/or hardship. It just isn't true for the majority of us. I healthy dose of fear or respect on a twisty road is most certainly better than overconfidence, imo.

[NukleoN]

Also remember, a friendly turn going uphill (positive camber, increasing radius) will often be the reverse coming down (unless both sides are engineered for the given direction somehow).

It's fun to ride any turns once you're past the noob stage, but certain turns definitely take more skill than others...

And it's true about those 'setup' turns...course that's a good reason to take it easy on unknown roads...but even when you know the road they can still catch you out. San Francisquito has a few tricky decreasing-radius left-handers coming toward Copper Hill....a guy on a ride we were on got caught by one.

Now as far as difficulty...I do think any rider can ride any bike...but some bikes are more difficult to ride than others. Even though the actions are the same (throttle, clutch, brake, balance, steering, etc.) some bikes just have a personality that is harder to get used to...but I do think any rider with self-control can ride pretty much any bike...just takes a bit of discipline to get to know the bike.

Road are sorta the same...you have to take the road for what it is...study the terrain, the road condition, etc. and decide how well your tires will stick....road surfaces can vary wildly in the course of just one ride. If a road is bumpy and I am going downhill...I'm going to be quite cautious...if it's smooth and flat or uphill, I can push a little harder knowing my chassis won't be upset while traction is reduced.

Each of us make decisions constantly about the road direction, the surface, hazards, our speed, our tires, our percieved traction....it's one big lump of factors which results in a speed which (hopefully) you feel comfortable with and is fun...and allows you to keep it up on two wheels to ride another day. :D

[SurfCityHommie]

All good pionts on what makes a road difficult. However, The DragonHawkster was reffering to newbies and the Squirrelest Errectus who don't know how to really ride on two wheels.

I think these two comments some it up.

"there are roads that -are- quite tough, regardless of skill level or pace." spasonatwin

"you have to take the road for what it is" Nukleon

Most good drivers/rider follow these guidelines, or maybe not:cool: Learn the road first then decide if it's difficult or not.

I'm sure many of you riders who race/ride Willow Springs or Buttonwillow can argue on which course is more difficult or more fun. Same as public roads. Just have to be smart on what you do.

from the :squid: gallery

[JV711]

Originally posted by Dragonhawk
it has inspired me to write a little rant about so-called "difficult roads" to ride.

There is no such thing as a difficult road, only squirrelly and inexperienced riders!


Dude, did somebody wake up grumpy?

There are a million distractions, fatigue, equipment failure... you yourself post 4 crashes in your profile...

It's fun to push the envelope, the roar of the throttle and quickening of the pulse is the same siren's call that plagued Odysseus' crew. If your only agenda is safe transport from point A to point B, might I suggest trading the SV for a Burgman, or a Metro bus pass?

It happens to the best of us, sometimes its self-inflicted and sometimes its just unlucky. Statistics say its inevitable, that's why we wear protective gear. Either way have fun and ride safe!

When in doubt, Slow the F&^% down!

[spasonatwin]

Originally posted by Ed Ramirez
All good pionts on what makes a road difficult. However, The DragonHawkster was reffering to newbies and the Squirrelest Errectus who don't know how to really ride on two wheels.

I think these two comments some it up.

"there are roads that -are- quite tough, regardless of skill level or pace." spasonatwin

"you have to take the road for what it is" Nukleon

Most good drivers/rider follow these guidelines, or maybe not:cool: Learn the road first then decide if it's difficult or not.

I'm sure many of you riders who race/ride Willow Springs or Buttonwillow can argue on which course is more difficult or more fun. Same as public roads. Just have to be smart on what you do.

from the :squid: gallery

Eloquentness, sir

[Dragonhawk]

Originally posted by JV711
There are a million distractions, fatigue, equipment failure... you yourself post 4 crashes in your profile...

Why do you think I'm ranting?

I was once one of the squirrley inexperienced dorks I am complaining about.

:lol:

See, I have every right to whine because I used to be that cocky and stupid myself.

;)

[Mad_Rabbit]

Sometimes you guys really over analyze this shit. The difficulty level of any road is relative to your riding experience which is relative to the time you've spent riding. One of the things I've noticed on this board is the apparent reluctance to just go ride, real rides, not commuting, not the same roads over and over, and longer than "a couple of hours cause I got shit to do". If you want to improve your street riding skills (or any riding skills) you have to ride and ride and then ride some more. I've been on group rides where some of the people rode two hours just to get to the start of the ride, then we do a 6-9 hour ride.

Most of the really good roads are out, away from the cities. Roads with little, if any, traffic and LEOs. These are some of the best roads to hone your street skills on, do a few 250-400 mile rides on mostly twisty roads with a variety of road conditions and you will quickly learn what works and what doesn't. I've ridden with a number of members of this board and would love to ride with most of you again. I ride almost every weekend, for me the "I got shit to do" IS riding motorcycles. So who's riding this weekend?

BTW the concept that you WILL crash is BS, lots of people ride many tens of thousands of miles a year without falling down, and they don't all ride slow either, sometimes they just ride well.

[J.Moto]

Originally posted by Mad_Rabbit
I ride almost every weekend, for me the "I got shit to do" IS riding motorcycles. So who's riding this weekend?


I think I got shit to do...

No, really! Saturday is a Hunter's Safety Course from 8 am to 5 pm. And Sunday is MSF Dirt School from 1pm to 5 pm in Castaic.

So that leaves Sunday morning. I wanted to go to Buttonwillow this weekend to get help swappin' my cams, but just realized I have the Hunter's Safety course....hmmm I probalby won't be able to get to Buttonwillow within Sunday morning to leave before 1130AM (to get to Castaic by 1pm), so how about a ride that ends me up in Castaic on Sunday morning?

[Rocko]

Originally posted by Dragonhawk
I've read a few newbie threads on various motorcycle forums lately and it has inspired me to write a little rant about so-called "difficult roads" to ride.

Here is the gist of what I need to get across: There is no such thing as a difficult road, only squirrelly and inexperienced riders!

There is one reason and one reason alone that newbies whine about roads that are "technical" and "challenging"; because they are going way too fast for their skill level. Period.

You think a road is "difficult" to ride? Then ride it again ... and try doing the speed limit this time. WHOA! Look at that! The road just got WAY easier, didn't it?

I'm sick of you "Valentino Rossi wannabes" who scare yourselves to death or say a road is "hard" to ride. Bull. There is no such thing as a public road that is hard to ride. It's only hard BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE DOING! You're hitting turns too fast. You're taking blind corners without leaning enough. You're rolling on the throttle through downhill decreasing-radius curves. In short, you riding like a freakin' idiot who doesn't know how to safely control your motorcycle. Stop it.

Heck, freakin' Lombard Street isn't a "challenge", as long as you don't ride like an moron.

pfft. whatever dude. go ride the tight side of palomar in a snow storm.

[sandie]

where is bloodclot with his ladder when we need him!?!?!

[svcat]

I have a ladder!

There ARE difficult roads and here's my reason for saying so.

Riders vary in their expertise.

Roads are roads, and don't vary just because there's a newbe riding along it.

[smokescreen]

I'm gonna go with, that was a rant.

There are difficult roads, for anybody. To some, there are impassable roads.

I'm not afraid to admit when a road is difficult, and I've heard racers say "this is a difficult course", or rossi say, today bike is not right, but I say, i ride faster today, and so I ride faster.. " not that theres any correlation, but I just love the shit Rossi says.. He's a funny guy.

And the Milky Way commercial where the candy bars sprouts a busty chiack that says "why so blue panda bear?" That's some funny shit too!!

[Buellba Fett]

I posit that roads (and tracks) are neutral. It is the rider's approach - affected by experience and skill set - that colors the perception of ease or difficulty. A particular rider's skills may be challenged in an unfamiliar manner, and thus he or she extolls that the road was challenging or difficult. But when the rider's skills adapt and the course is known, the challenge is less, yes?

Was it that the road was difficult? Or that the rider found the road difficult?

[sandie]

Originally posted by smokescreen
And the Milky Way commercial where the candy bars sprouts a busty chiack that says "why so blue panda bear?" That's some funny shit too!!


hahahaha! you're a buffet of manliness! i LOVE those commercials for some reason

[NukleoN]

Even those with the skills to handle difficult roads can acknowledge that some roads are more difficult than others...it seems self-evident.

I love those Milky Way commercials too...they're mysteriously alluring...somehow the idea of a complimentary girl popping out of a Milky Way is funny and cute. Somehow the cute girl cheering the guy up is believable..like a mishmash of every girlfriend I've ever had trying to cheer me up. Damn we guys are so simple sometimes heh.

Commercials I hate (thus resulting in subconscious boycotting)...Carl's Jr. and Burger King. The stupid announcer for Carl's is annoying..'If it doesn't get all over the place it doesn't belong in your face' is the dumbest tag line I've ever heard. Seems the commercials are written by a 12 year old 'Don't bother me, I'm eating' STFU biatch. :D The Burger King king is just retarded....give it up...that stupid expressionless King showing up in weird places isn't making me hungry...it's like a mime..it's gonna piss people off lol.

Anyhoo...yeah...riding in the pouring freakin' rain was tough last night....darn visor kept fogging up...rain INSIDE the visor....anyone know a fix for that?

[NukleoN]

I ride almost every weekend, for me the "I got shit to do" IS riding motorcycles

That's very true for me...if I am riding, that's what I want to be doing. When I am not riding I got other stuff to do, but daytime is for RIDING. :D

[Devilfish]

Originally posted by NukleoN
That's very true for me...if I am riding, that's what I want to be doing. When I am not riding I got other stuff to do, but daytime is for RIDING. :D

Lol... I agree too! I hate when people I work with want me to spend my weekend at some BBQ or something with them, and I tell them I'm going riding... sorry I got plans...

They say crap like, "You ride every weekend..."

Yeah... and? I'm going out this weekend too because I had to spend all week working with you!!!