Racing... cost to be competitive?

[Som]

So Royce, myself and another friend of mine are looking into racing. Ideally, we want to start next season.

We're in the process of determining which class we want to race in and which racing organization we want to race with. One of the major factors that's being considered is the cost to be competitive.

I imagine, at least in my case, that my skills/experience will be the limiting factor before the condition of my bike. In order to get better though, we'll need bikes that are working and working well -- race-in and race-out. That's what I mean about "a competitive bike"... I want my skills to be the reason I don't win a race, not the bike -- that way, I can concentrate on improving my skills.

That said... I'm trying to get an idea of what people who race pay. Preferably numbers that are dependent on the class you race -- hotel and travel costs are relatively the same regardless.

Right now, some of the racing organizations we've looked at are CMRRA, WSMC, and WERA. Other racing organization suggestions are welcome.

Here are the classes we're currently trying to get a cost idea of:

CMRRA - Stock and 65GP classes

WSMC - SuperStock, Modified, and Superbike

WERA - B, C, D, SuperStock and 125GP / 250GP bikes

----

Ideally a "per weekend" cost would be nice with a breakdown, or maybe just a "cost per competitive season".

Thanks!

- Som

[druiid]

You don't want to race a 125 2-stroke.

That said, your WSMC classes listed will be vastly more expensive.

I spend around $200-$300 with the CMRRA per weekend. Basically, you can get super cheap by bringing food and camping at the track, etc.

[morbidelli17]

To win? Slightly more than everything you have.

[trey_loco]

and whatever you do...seriously...don't start racing on a 600. Just don't do it.

[twf]

it is cheap to be competitive,as long you got balls :)

[Cyanide41]

First of all, people get wrapped up about what they need to be competitive bike wise. I know guys who go out there and kick ass on a 100% stock bike. 99% of it is rider. (up until you reach a certain level).

I've raced CCS, WSMC and WERA.
CCS entries for 3 races = $210
WSMC entries for 1 race + Saturday practice = $140
WERA entries for 2 races = $155

Tires depend on your bike and riding style, but you can expect each set to cost $300-$400. I payed $320 for Michelins and now $305 for Pirellis with a 160 rear. I go through a set about every 6-8 days with my SV. Last time I had race rubber on my duc it lasted 3 days. If you race a 1k, expect to by new tires every month.

Other things to consider are hotels, gas, food, track entry fees, and transponders. CSS gives you a transponder for the weeken. WSMC and WERA use AMB transponders and you need to purchase or rent them.

CMMRA is going to be your best bet as far as price. Bikes are cheaper, Track days are cheaper, races are cheaper. 125's are good as long as you don't mind doing a lot of wrenching.

SV650's are great for racing. Especially if you are worried about being to competitive since almost everyone is on an SV.

[Kurt'sSV]

The type of bike you race drastically effects how much stuff costs.

Racing your Aprilia would put you in an uncompetitve class at WSMC - meaning theres 3 guys at most who are pretty good, but mostly the 5 other guys in that class suck. Throw you in there and that'd make 6.

SS, ModProd and SBK what?

For racing an SV at WSMC it's $190 for Saturday practice and 2 races - 550 Superbike and Formula Twins Lightweight (run under superbike rules as well).

Say 8 gallons of gas for the weekend at $3+ per gallon (91 octane pump gas) = $24
12 gallons of gas for the truck at $3 per gallon = $36

Tires – roughly $300. In the beginning you can get a good 2 months or more out of your rear tire – practice and racing. For me I could get about 4 races out of a rear tire, that includes flipping it. I’d have a different tire for racing and practice. Actually, as a novice you can race on like a Dunlop Qualifier rear tire because you’re not going very fast. Front tires last a while longer.

Entry fees plus gas = $250 roughly for the weekend.
Tires vary depending on your need. $300+ or more for a new set depending on what you run. $200ish for a rear.

How many track days have you even done before you think you’d want to take the plunge into racing?

[J.Moto]

Originally posted by druiid
You don't want to race a 125 2-stroke.


Why?


Also, in CMRRA there are other classes that let you race "bigger" bikes so you don't feel like such a pussy on a little scooter. 85GP, Supermoto, etc...

I spend $125 in fees (Sat practice, Race entry for 2 classes), $10 to get in at Willow. Plus a few cents on gas. That's about it! ;)

[druiid]

Why don't you want to race a 125 2-stroke? Generally, with a few exceptions you have to rebuild half the engine every few hundred miles.. they eat tires quicker.. etc.

There are of course people that have gotten then to last a good amount longer..

[nefarious-az]

On an SV 650 a weekand of CCS racing runs me about $450-500 not including gas/food/lodging (the track is 5 minutes from my place). However If I run brand new tyres on saturday morning, and really push for all 8 practices the day before, add another $345 for another set of tires.

Originally posted by druiid
Why don't you want to race a 125 2-stroke? Generally, with a few exceptions you have to rebuild half the engine every few hundred miles.. they eat tires quicker.. etc.

There are of course people that have gotten then to last a good amount longer..

Everyone I know that races those things fucking hates that they do, the amount of work they have to put into the bike to keep it on the track is ridiculous. Granted, once they ARE ON THE TRACK they are a fucking blast.

[J.Moto]

Som, I will highly suggest starting out on the little bikeses!

Last weekend I was at Streets for the third time (first the first of which was back in Feb. '06 with the SV650, and again last Oct. '06 with my NSR50R for my first race). This was my first time with the KTM on the track, and first time really opening the KTM up and attempting to ride it hard.

Last year on the SV650 I was a complete super-n00b in the Street group. Of course I didn't go that fast. Last October, well, I was on the NSR so of course I didn't go that fast. BUT, last weekend I was bumped to the race group from sport for safety reasons (going to fast in the sport group...maybe there were just a bunch of slow people at this trackday).

This would never have happened without racing the NSR. It's not like I have extensive time on Streets to learn it and it's not like I really know how to ride my KTM since it's so new to me. Something about learning to race the little bike has tought me at least a couple things about trying to ride a track circuit faster and faster. (Dirt riding has probably helped me acclimate to the road-racing dirtbike, too.)

An added benefit is the little bikeses are cheap!

[Kurt'sSV]

Oh and if you're asking about what you need to do to a specific bike to make it competitive - that's kind of negligible. You can modify and superbike the shit out of your bike, but it's not really going to make as much a difference as you'd like. I've spent about $2,000 on performance parts since my rookie year in 2004 to make the bike go faster, stop better and turn quicker and it's gotten me about 3 seconds. Actually, most of those three seconds has probably come from experience.

So don't worry, your skills will be why you're not winning. ;)

Originally posted by Som
I imagine, at least in my case, that my skills/experience will be limiting factor before the condition of my bike.

:lol: I just re-read this. Dude, that's everyone's case.

Wow, how can you imagine that you might even be pushing your bike? You're pretty impressed with yourself after your one track day, huh?

[Slaughter]

Except suspension and tires, save your money for more race practice, instruction and track days.

Hate to say it but the small twins are probably going to be the cheapest way to get racing and not burn tires like crazy.

EX500 Kawi has a wealth of info out there on setup and tuning. Uses tires at half the rate of the I-4 600 class bikes.

SV aint bad at all. Both EX500 and SV have a bunch of classes they're elegible for.

I agree with Trey - stay away from the 600 classes (except twins) - it's a bloodbath - litrebikes not any better. Upgrade bikes your second season. If money is a consideration, it just makes no sense.

The 600 class bikes really DO use a set of tires in a race weekend.

Speaking of costs, NOBODY talks about insurance costs!

If you're relying on your company's HMO - that'll be fine to stop the bleeding and set the bones but beyond that, every horror story about HMO's resisting covering the specialists required for ortho injury and recovery (physical therapy) is true. That's why I decided to stay the hell away from HMO plans when I started racing.

A good insurance policy is going to be a $$grand$$ a month - but if you EVER need insurance, you don't want to be arguing with them about the necessity of going to specialists or getting referrals. Worse, you don't want your friend/wife/significant other to be doing it while you're unconscious. Been there, done that (well, Sunny had to) - takes a load off her mind knowing that EVERYTHING will be covered.

Most folks are underinsured and TRUST ME - you don't want to find out in the ER that your company's insurance has a policy that excludes racing (read yours, about half of them don't) - that puts you in the tender arms of the State or you are paying out of pocket.

If you are willing to go to battle with your insurance company about the need for referrals or the need for specialists or the need for any particular treatments or whether they'll cover YOUR choice of doctor - you can save some money - but you get what you pay for.

I know most folks aren't even willing to discuss it but I've too often seen fundraising efforts on behalf of racers without insurance or with insurance that refused coverage of specialists.

Half the folks I know who have gone to the ER have bitched about their insurance more than they've ever bitched about the doctors.

Think about it - seriously - because you WILL use your medical insurance.

[druiid]

Okay Som, now that you've seen some posts from the WSMC racers, I can link you to pictures of the RS-50 :)

[Cyanide41]

I would make a comment about Slaughter and Medical care, but I don't want to jinx myself.

[Tom]

You figure out how much money you have to spend each season, then...

1) you will spend double the amount if everything goes smoothly.

2) you will spend 3 times the amount or more if you are hard on equipment. :D

Being competitive is mostly about how much you want it more than the next guy.

[morbidelli17]

Originally posted by morbidelli17
To win? Slightly more than everything you have.

I am paraphrasing Ron Dennis, who has built McLaren into the dominant force in F1 racing. His comment was, roughly, "At every level, racing always costs slightly more than you have."

What I take this to mean is that budgeting is generally a bad idea. Don't budget. Don't make plans, because if you really need something and it exceeds your artificially determined budget, you wind up skimping in all the wrong places. Just be prepared to spend whatever it takes to run at the level you're comfortable with, but let that level of spending find itself. Don't run up credit card bills; I don't race until I have at least identified how I can pay off any charges from the last race.

Then just go do it. Spend what you need to, eat well, have fun, then go home and start balancing the checkbook.

One last thought: Hurley and the Buell boys seem to be having a ball racing those Buell Blasts. And that &@#$& spent $200 last SEASON on tires. :mad:

One more last thought: Z-man, there are few things more expensive on this planet than growing a set of balls ... ;)

[codzilla70]

I race an SV650 at WSMC big track.
Tires are the biggest expense. I spend $350 on a set every weekend. Cheaper than a crash I guess.
$75 for hotel, $100 on fuel and everything runs on ARCO 87 including the bike.
About $50 on food water. $20 for gate fees, $70 for Sat practice, $70 for Solo GT Lights, $120 for Sunday, 550SBK and FTLW. What you do to the bike depends on you. You WILL need to upgrade the spench but I would wait for engine work.
If you crash FORGETABOUTIT! CHA MUTHERF%CKING CHING!

Oh I forgot oil every other weekend $50 a change plus filter $10.

[trey_loco]

$50 for an oil change? What the fuck, over?

[druiid]

Good oil is expensive... although $50 on an SV is a bit much.

[trey_loco]

yeah..i guess i forget about my discounts.

[J.Moto]

Damn, you WSMC racers are super rich!

[since413]

$1200. Like clockwork. Times 12. Don't crash. Don't break down. End up on the outside looking in at the banquet. It's January tommorow. It never ends...

[Som]

Originally posted by Kurt'sSV
Oh and if you're asking about what you need to do to a specific bike to make it competitive - that's kind of negligible. You can modify and superbike the shit out of your bike, but it's not really going to make as much a difference as you'd like. I've spent about $2,000 on performance parts since my rookie year in 2004 to make the bike go faster, stop better and turn quicker and it's gotten me about 3 seconds. Actually, most of those three seconds has probably come from experience.

So don't worry, your skills will be why you're not winning. ;)

:lol: I just re-read this. Dude, that's everyone's case.

Wow, how can you imagine that you might even be pushing your bike? You're pretty impressed with yourself after your one track day, huh?

Haha... I meant that more to sound like I wasn't trying to make claims about anyone else's skill (ie, the couple people that are planning on doing this with me). For me, it'll be the skill... but how can I speak for anyone else?

Also, I'm not planning on racing the Aprilia at all... why would I be asking about all the different race classes if I was planning on racing my bike? Heh...

When I say "I imagine it'll be my skill" I was basically leaving the door open for anyone that might have insight as to other reasons I may not be competitive... like maybe "suspension tuning" or something... don't know... that's why I said it that way. :)

As far as being impressed with myself, not exactly. I just know I don't want to wait a year and a half to start. Which is why I plan on doing several trackdays this season as well as the Stars school to help get me up to speed and prepared as well as possible before this year is over.

*** End Kurt Response ***

The main point for posing this question was to gauge how much I'd need to spend on consumables. The recurring costs:

Chains? If kept well lubed and tightened as needed, should one chain last me a season?

Sprockets? Same as above. Understandable the teeth will grind down, but can one set last me a season without getting to a dangerous level?

Brake pads? I imagine rears will last me a whole season and beyond. Fronts? I'm guessing 2 sets for a season. Though I imagine if I went with better pads this could be one or two more.

Rotors? I'm guessing one new set lasts me a season or two.

Tires? (covered extensively, and I appreciate the responses)

Engine?
--- Bottom end?
--- Top end?
--- Valve adjustments?

Carb cleaning? Rebuilding? I have little experience with carbs, so I have no clue.

Brake fluid (and, if necessary, clutch fluid) flushes? I imagine I'll flush them once throughout the season.

Coolant I'm guessing I won't need to do anything with this for the season. Maybe a flush midway through for the summer?

Oil changes? 2 or 3 changes a season?

Spark plugs? 1 set should last if they're cleaned?

Fork oil? I imagine if it's been recently done this would last a season... one change tops?

Caliper rebuilds? Maybe once?

These are the kinds of things I'm wondering about. On one end of the spectrum, it sounds like the 50cc bikes need to be rebuilt a few times throughout the season, though the cost is relatively inexpensive. On the other end, I imagine that there are bikes that might not need any major engine rebuild/repair for an entire season (given expected racing wear and tear).

These are the costs I'm trying to gauge.

How many times, average, through a season do you WSMC guys deal with the above issues?

What I'm trying to figure out is, if I bought a "great condition SV650", for example, what kinds of upkeep costs should I *expect* to pay.

- Som

Originally posted by since413
$1200. Like clockwork. Times 12. Don't crash. Don't break down. End up on the outside looking in at the banquet. It's January tommorow. It never ends...

That was very poetic... I liked it. :)

- Som

[J.Moto]

Actually, the stock 50cc can last a couple or three seasons. I never heard of anyone rebuilding a NSR after one season (and if you do rebuild it the process is cheap and easy). People race a whole season on tires. Sprocket and chain wear minimal (more than one season lifespan). Only recurring cost for my bike so far: fuel, oil, crash replacements, and nuts and bolts I have lost. It's all skill on these little bikes.

[Slaughter]

Originally posted by morbidelli17

One more last thought: Z-man, there are few things more expensive on this planet than growing a set of balls ... ;)

Hell, Zoran called me in the E.R. and asked about the head injury and then asked if I hurt my balls... because you don't need brains, just balls.

Zoran, you just gotta love that guy!

[twf]

to race buel you already proved there is no brain,just balls :D

[trey_loco]

Actually...I do believe there is some racing equipment available right away. I'm sure you could even get a good deal since it's going to a fellow SV guy. What the hell am I talking about, you ask?


http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26026&perpage=15&pagenumber=1


I'm sure Kurt would let it go for a good price. I mean...afterall, he's not going to be needing it anymore. He's growing up. Got himself a real job now. Has to re-prioritize his life. Hell, you might even see about getting a deal on his balls. They used to be big ones....maybe with some training, they could be that way again. Afterall, he says he's done with them.


:D :D :D

[morbidelli17]

Just talked to a bike builder tonight about this - he's dealing with a newbie customer who keeps asking how much it's ultimately gonna cost. "I keep telling him, it costs what it costs," the builder says.

He did offer one good bit of advice. Get a used racebike, freshen it up a bit, and don't ever count on selling it as a street bike to recoup the money. It really doesn't matter what bike you buy; the cost of racing is in keeping the bike running and - going racing ...

[Slaughter]

Check all the racing orgs classified sections - CCS, WSMC, WERA, AFM -

ALSO Michael mentioned a class that is ULTRA CHEAP - the Singles!

Scott Fabbro spent $250 on his Honda Ascot. Suspension upgrades weren't cheap (stock shocks are crap and forks need revalving/respringing) and tires because of the funny sizes are like $400 but they last a couple months but for about $1500 he got a competitive bike.

[codzilla70]

http://www.ducatitech.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6062


Just a thought.


(edit) Motul 300V isn't cheap and I pay retail on most of my stuff cause I ain't got no hook ups on anything.

[kc1717]

Dont forget time. IT can easily be the largest cost.

and dont race a 1000, at willow when my rear rebound was a little off i ate a rear tire in 5 sessions of a track day :( at around 131-135 pace

[Monsterdood]

Wan some fun? Go get a little 150 4-stroke dirtbike and find places to race it... Way cheaper than road racing and I bet as much fun....

My EX500 is pretty darn cheap to race, a set of tires every 3 months, change the oil, maybe a chain and set of pads each year.... maybe.... and don't touch the engine because it just works and doesn't complain... in fact I plan on selling it here in a month or two to focus on the SV. Own a class winning bike for a grand....... Ready to race with spares.... :)

I raced the EX for over a year and spent about $100-$200 only on it not including tires and entry fees so there are cheap ways to go racing..... and I did 36's on it and a better rider would probably go a bit faster so ther ya go.....

[twf]

Originally posted by codzilla70
http://www.ducatitech.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6062


Just a thought.



if you want kawi I have faster yellow version for sale.probably much cheaper than that one :)

[Slaughter]

The modification you need to go on the podium is YELLOW

Normally on most motorcycles, BLUE is fastest but with the SV and EX500, YELLOW is definitely fastest!

Originally posted by twf
if you want kawi I have faster yellow version for sale.probably much cheaper than that one :)

[codzilla70]

Cost just went up another $30.

http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=26041

:D

[speedy619]

Originally posted by Som
So Royce, myself and another friend of mine are looking into racing. Ideally, we want to start next season.

We're in the process of determining which class we want to race in and which racing organization we want to race with. One of the major factors that's being considered is the cost to be competitive.

I imagine, at least in my case, that my skills/experience will be the limiting factor before the condition of my bike. In order to get better though, we'll need bikes that are working and working well -- race-in and race-out. That's what I mean about "a competitive bike"... I want my skills to be the reason I don't win a race, not the bike -- that way, I can concentrate on improving my skills.

That said... I'm trying to get an idea of what people who race pay. Preferably numbers that are dependent on the class you race -- hotel and travel costs are relatively the same regardless.

Right now, some of the racing organizations we've looked at are CMRRA, WSMC, and WERA. Other racing organization suggestions are welcome.

Here are the classes we're currently trying to get a cost idea of:

CMRRA - Stock and 65GP classes

WSMC - SuperStock, Modified, and Superbike

WERA - B, C, D, SuperStock and 125GP / 250GP bikes

----

Ideally a "per weekend" cost would be nice with a breakdown, or maybe just a "cost per competitive season".

Thanks!

- Som

Som,

You sound fairly sensible and it is good to hear someone trying to emphasize their skills.

The big factors are: bike(class), club(track), goals, and team work.

This leads me to ask some questions, but first let me give you a feel for what you can expect. I started racing at WSMC on 600s than tought for years for various schools and finally came back to racing with CCS/Wera West on SV650s. I spent roughly 1,000 with WSMC and about 600 with Wera/CCS. I am a cheap bastard though and that does not include crashes. I don't like working on 2 strokes so, I can't speak of them. AFM means lots of travel time...Thunderhill and Sears Point are over 8 hours away.

So, my first question is what are your racing goals? Do you want to race a full season?
If so whatever your monthly is WSMC means that cost x 12 Wera that cost x 8(not sure this year maybe 7?) and similar for CMMRA I'm sure.
Do you want to ride a particular track? or race or multiple tracks?
WSMC - big willow only Wera about 4-5 tracks a year and AFM 3-4 tracks, but northern cal. I would end the club comments with WSMC rules are structure to race inline 4 strokes and not V-twins are 2 strokes. Wera and AFM have rules that promote handicapping different bike types to compete against each other. In Wera a SV650 is competitive in about 4-5 classes and at WSMC only 2 classes.

Nezt question: Do you want to race more than 1 season? How big a field do you want to race against? How much money do you expect to spend? Here is where a GSXR750 or an SV650 (and the new Kawi) are great. You will not be outdated automatically next year. In the 600/1000 class expect to buy a new nearly every year. If you are into 2 strokes expect to have a mechanic or get ready to get your hands dirty every weekend. The biggest fields are in the 600 class like 25-40 on the grid where the SV classes are more like 10-20. When you look at anyone's race budget tires are sure to be high on the list. An SV means a lot lower tire cost compared to a 600. Big track at willow is also a tire shredder. 1 weekend on a 600 at big willow means 2 sets of tires for me. At streets of willow on the SV I can get 3 weekends out of a set that is a big difference.

When you look at the other costs transportation to the track and hotel are high on the list as well. You can sleep in your truck or travel at the last minute, but is that what you want? What is your goal...fun, a trophy, time spent with frieneds or making new ones, competition? I would recommend that you network with others to share the ride, hotel and racing competition.

So, I say go to the tracks that you think you want to race at and be sure. Than race with each club or at least go on a race weekend and see how it is run and how big the grids are. Than go buy a SV that is setup and run a year with Wera. Call me up and we can caravan or ride share! I'm back in it for 08!...WOOT

[Som]

Thanks for the info! :)

So, is that really typical? I mean, you spent $12k on racing a season at WSMC in monthly costs and you consider yourself a cheap bastard? Wow... :) That seems kind of high compared to the other people I've heard.

Also, why, would you say, did WSMC turn out to be $1k a month verses the $600 a month of WERA/CCS? Was that only because of the tire costs of running the 600cc bike on big Willow or were there other reasons?

You brought up some other good points that I was considering despite asking about the cost only...

I would prefer to race with an organization that goes to multiple tracks, but it's not the highest priority.

I would love to race AFM because I know Infineon and Thunderhill like the back of my hand. Alas, I don't think I could manage the drive. If I get through a season and I feel like I could be competitive up there, I might consider it in a future season.

So, yes, I plan on multiple seasons, but we'll see how it goes.

As far as grid size, I really don't mind at all.

I think I'm getting a good idea of the costs... I'll try to post kind of a "guesstimate" later to see if people think it's somewhat reasonable.

- Som

[Kurt'sSV]

I've spent around 5-6K a year for racing. For some reason I know how to do it cheaper than most.

WSMC costs more because there's 12 rounds, more than other clubs, and you spend a lot more on tires.

[racinteach]

not racing road..here but I do race desert in two-three orgainzations. My race weeknds can range from $150 to 1K a weekend. I try to avoid the $1k weekends.. my average weekend is about $300 not including prep work..no lodging expenses for me due to my trailer, but we use to spend more befopre the trailer...racing is not cheap adn can get expenhsive before you know it. the thing you really can't plan on is your actuall repair and maint cost. Inmy case I do it myself, I am lucky that way, but parts cost is what can takenme outof a race in a month.. I have a budget for race fees adn expenses, but one broken part can wipe out that budget.so I skip a month...or two depending on the cost..so keep that in mind..desert racing is alot harder on bikes then street, in one BITD race I can go through one tire in a race or go through three tires, can toast a wheel in a second or make the whole 500miles..so many variables...you really can't plan on...

[trey_loco]

FYI...here is part of an expense sheet I used when soliciting sponsors:

<b> WSMC 2006 2007 </b>
Entry Fee 150.00 250.00
Auto Gas 50.00 50.00
Bike Gas 20.00 40.00
Tires 350.00 750.00
Hotel 75.00 75.00
Food 50.00 50.00
Maintenance 100.00 200.00
Miscellaneous 100.00 200.00

per month 895.00 1,615.00

[Slaughter]

I don't know about grid size - sure, it's easy to say it's fine from the BACK of a field of 75 riders but ask Jack Pfeiffer what it's like going down IN FRONT of 60 riders!

[speedy619]

Hi Som,

Yes racing a 600 vs. an SV is more money in a few ways, but mostly tires. Expect to spend more than double on tires for the 600. Than goto Willow Springs and no matter what you are riding expect to spend double on tires. While at WSMC on a 600 tires were about 1/3 to 1/2 of my budget and the faster I got the more tires I went thru. Racing the SV on all the track with CCS and Wera I was more sucessful, so contingency reduced my tire costs and I used like 1/4 maybe 1/3 the number of tires per race. Also WSMC = 12 races and CCS was like 8. So, WSMC cost me about 1k/weekend and CCS/Wera were between 2/3 to 3/4 of that.

Trey_loco numbers look pretty accurate to me. Hope all this helps.

Mike

[jadeblue1]

can't let you guys have a ll the fun with this one...

for som, it's good that you're thinking in depth about this-the average "season-lifespan" for a club racer is about 3 seasons. (because of burnout, frustration, or financial difficulties)

there have been some good suggestions on here so far, hopefully this is some more info that will help:

Basic Equipment you will need:
GOOD Helmet
GOOD Boots
GOOD 1 pc leathers
GOOD gloves
GOOD Back protector
2-3 visors for helmet (different degrees of tinted to clear

Racebike (obviously)
front stand (steering head type)
rear stand
good gas can
fire extinguisher
chain lube, chain cleaner, visor cleaner, bike cleaner, brake cleaner, extra engine oil, extra brake fluid
shop towels & a couple of good rags
water wetter-you cannot have coolant in your radiator, you will need to have this stuff in it

Basic tool kit to work on bike-this would need to include all the tools you would need to change your tires-front & rear, change your sprockets, take off your bodywork, safety wire your bike, and tighten things back up.(allen wrenches, socket set up to 24mm, 2 rackets, screwdrivers, felt tip ink pen, dead blow hammer, axel grease, safety-wire pliers, safety wire, small breaker bar, torque wrench, brake line bleeder)Also include a big bag of industrial strength zip ties, duct tape, and electrical tape.

transponder (some clubs let you rent-others require you to buy one-cost is $200-$350)
bike ramp (not a necessity, but easier to use than a board)

Spares Kit: this is going to vary slightly-andy palmer has a real good spares kit list for an sv..what i carry around in mine: 2 extra brake & clutch levers, extra footpegs, extra rearsets, extra windscreen, extra bike sliders-i have fork, frame & an exhaust slider, spark plugs, 2 extra clipons. if i go down hard enough to do more damage than that, i'm probably going to be to sore to get back up & ride that day.

i also have 3 sprockets thrown into my tool kit-1 extra of what i have on the bike, plus 1 tooth down & 1 tooth up. an extra set of brake pads is not a bad idea, but front pads will usually last a season on the SV

gas for a big pickup- 3 hr round trip -$80
5 hr round trip -$150
8 hr round trip-$180

gas for bike-3 days-$40

club license & membership-about $120 for a full years license (wsmc, wera, afm)

practice fees vary from track to track-example: wera @ fontana or miller is about a $200 practice day, but @ buttonwillow is $120. sometimes the track that is having the event will have a practice day on friday that is cheaper than the saturday practice, so you could go on a friday "track day" ride your butt off & pay less.

entry fees are pretty standard, but if you enter at least 3 weeks ahead of time (wera, afm,) you can save about $25. same with wsmc-enter about 7-8 days before the event & you'll save about $40.
most of the pre entry fees are: approx $70 for first race, $50 second race & most other race entries after that.

tires-i run a hard compound front slick-i get about 6 mos out of it if i take care of it & keep flipping it. i need a new rear about every 3rd weekend @willow. however, i am about 6 sec slower than cody, and i weigh 110 lbs. i will also keeo my old race tires for practice tires and i wear them past the wear bars (personal comfort level on the tires)

lastly-my .02... i ran wera, afm, and wsmc last year, and did 23 race weekends during the course of the year. i camped at the tracks as much as i could-most of them have showers, brought me own food & limited eating out or at the track snack bars. i spent about $10-$13k

as far as what i've had to replace the most of: front brake pads once, chain once, front sprocket once, rear sprocket 2x, fork seals 3x, rear shock seal & revalve once, windsheild once, brake lever 3x, clutch lever once.

[Som]

That's a nice breakdown, Shandra... thanks!!

And thanks to everyone else for your insight! I think the decision has been made to join WSMC and race the SV650.

Still on the hunt for a truck, and now I'm on the hunt for a race bike.

Got about 5 or 6 trackdays planned from here to October including the Pridmore school.

- July 27 - Streets of Willow (Ti2TT)
- August 26 - Streets of Willow (Trackdaz - SCSVR Trackday)
- September 20/21 - Streets of Willow (Pridmore Racing School)
- October ?? - Thunderhill (not sure with who yet)

Lot of Streets days, I know.

Plus I have to do the WSMC Racing License School somewhere in there.

Some friends are doing SoW again in October... but I probably won't do this one. If I'm going to be racing Big Willow, I think I need to get some big track practice. I'll try to squeeze a trackday or two into Sept/October.

Plus, I'd like to spend the last few months of this season to pick up novice points to get out of the Novice Middleweight class... since it's my understanding that the 600 4s beatdown most of the 650 2s in that class -- and I think I'd enjoy more of a fair fight.

You need 10 points in 3 separate events to get to Probational Expert status. Assuming I can finish all my races (which I imagine shouldn't be too difficult since I'll likely be near the middle-to-back of the pack and likely not as many bikes around to contest corners with), that's 3 races by the end of the year -- so at least 6 points.

That'll also give me a good taste of the racing pace and cost. If I'm feeling up for the challenge, and I feel like I can be competitive, I'll just to the Probie status as early as possible in the new season. If I feel like I'm just sucking ass, then I'll probably just stick to Novice class for the entire '08 season.

I think the question will answer itself -- if I'm racing at a fairly competitive pace, the I imagine I should be able to pull off more than just 2 points in the November/December races... if I finish at the back of the pack all 3 weekends (which I'm not ruling out as a possibility), then I'll likely take that as a sign that I need a Novice season to get better.

So yeah... on the hunt for a race bike. Buddy of mine said he got a SV650 with the gixxer mods on it with high 30k miles for about $3k -- and he's apparently been beating on it without problems for about a year. I'm looking in the same ballpark...

Again... thanks for everyone's input! Any further input/hints/suggestions/etc would also be appreciated! :)

- Som

[Slaughter]

One thing you might seriously consider is renting an Enterprise cargo van and splitting costs with another racer or buying a small open trailer. If you don't have any other need for a pickup, you're carrying it around for 25 days a month when it's not needed... or get a throw-away used truck. I saved about $10 grand when I blundered into a friend selling their used Toyota pickup for $1800 - and I've put over 120,000 miles on it.

[Som]

That's a good point... and I've thought about it quite a abit.

I don't think I'm going to find the steal at $1800. I'm looking for something in the $6-9k range. If I used it just for racing, that'd be about 3-400 miles a month -- roughly. So, about 4-5k miles a year. Maybe make it 6k just to add a Thunderhill trip in there. :)

I figure, roughly, just the race day driving will depreciate the truck about $700 a year -- I compared a 99 Tacoma @ 95k, vs a 98 Tacoma at 103k and the difference was $7000 for the '99 vs, $6400 for the '98... so roughly $6-700 depreciation with 1 year and 8k miles.

As a side note, about $500 of that was just the model year being 1 year older -- not the miles.

I'll add about $300 a year for insurance to that.

So all together, almost regardless of how many trackdays I go to, I'll be paying about $1000 for my own truck. I don't factor the loan payments into this because ultimately that's equity that I could get back by selling the truck... so truck depreciation and insurance are the only unrecoverable costs.

Rental trucks are about $150 for a weekend (according to Enterprise's site @ 3 days, Friday to Monday) plus about roughly $50 bucks for 3 days of insurance (which I'd get). I assume vans are roughly the same? The prices weren't available on Enterprise's site. So about $200 for the weekend -- $100 a month being my share.

So a full season, 12 weekends, would cost about $1000 with my truck, and $1200 with the rental -- and that assumes I have a racer friend *each* weekend to go up with me.

So, at 10 weekends, I break even.

Now, this'll probably make whoever actually read the above and tried to understand it roll their eyes -- but I actually plan on using the truck outside of just trackdays. :) My dad does work in his backyard often and could use the truck. I have an M3 but it's got really stiff suspension, so I don't like driving for quickie runs. Plus I plan on hitting the mountain for the snowboarding season.

:D

Did I waste my time to do the work? Meh... probably. :)

- Som -- casual waster of time.

[dragon129]

Well, here is what it cost me on my first race on CCS Southeast Region at Virginia International Raceway during the weekend of June 21. Just for the race weekend alone.

Pre-registered for race practice on Friday $145.
Pre-registered for races entered that weekend $205 (4 Races)
Gate fee just to enter $45 (Last year was $20. They're trying like hell to push the low budget amateur racer away from that facility.) Electric and camping cost like $50 on top of that.
Then add your gas and tires for the weekend. I brought sandwiches and a cooler to save money.

It was more expensive for me because I decided to check out the landscape of VIR and snap my collarbone in the process at the beginning of my 3rd race. Oh well, shit happens.

[Kurt'sSV]

Good job.