Willow Springs Race tracks & condition

[neattoes3000]

Can someone out there explain the difference between Williow Springs and the Streets of Willows (http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/maps.asp)? What the hell is the big track. I just did a great track day, but now I want more. The cheaper days (Trackdaz) are at those two tracks. What the difference? Who runs the best track days? I was looking at the Fast Track Riders and they seem really expensive. Let me know. After the DP Safety school, I don't think I need anymore instuction, but it couldn't hurt.

Craig

Willow Springs International Raceway "Big Track"
http://www.socalsvriders.com/maps/willow.gif

Streets of Willow
http://www.socalsvriders.com/maps/willowstreets.gif

[Setter32]

the difference between Williow Springs and the Streets of Willows?

...those 2 are located in the same place.......right next to each other........but are 2 totally separate tracks.....

....Willow Springs is the bigger........and faster......much faster of the two................and more expensive for the track day promoter to rent.........cause I a reckon it's more popular........dunno....

....Streets of Willow........or "The Streets"...........is smaller........tighter.......slower.........and much more technical.........

.....okey dokey?.........


Who runs the best track days?

...dunno..........but it sure ain't Fast Track.........from what I hear.....

...and yes........they are wayyyy expensive....


After the DP Safety school, I don't think I need anymore instuction

....you so silly.......




:D

[Kurt'sSV]

MTC does the cheapest track days at the Willow tracks.

I've been on both tracks and for our bikes I like the Streets better.

[fastkevin]

Fastrack no longer runs the Friday track day on the big track. It's now handled by WSMC. It's $130-which is pretty cheap WSMC (http://www.race-wsmc.com/news.htm)

[CPM F4]

WSMC requires a membership (http://www.race-wsmc.com/lic.app.index.htm) to run in their Friday track sessions which is $50 for the year.

[fastkevin]

So what? If you do it 6 times a year (1/2 the available dates) you're still averaging out to less than $140 each.
NOBODY runs a track day at Willow better than the WSMC

[CPM F4]

I was just providing additional information so that people reading these posts could make an informed decision about doing a track day. I agree that if you do multiple events through WSMC the costs are lower but not everyone wants to. So the additional cost of a membership would not be appealing to these people.

[filthyboatguy]

What speeds are ya'll hitting on the Streets. Not talking race bikes, just good running SV/SVS's with the usual mods (pipe, jet kit, fork work).

Jeff

[Kurt'sSV]

On my brother's stock SVS I would get right to about 100 mph on the front straight before I rolled off to take turn 1. If I was a little ballzier I would have taken turn 1 at 100 like Reg Pridmore. That's a goal for me to do the next time I ride the Streets track.

[Setter32]

....as Kurt said.......

.....100 on the straight.............100 + if you're so incline.........I'm not....

.....but the rest of the track.........consists of many tight turns like those on Palomar.................and one turn called the bowl........this one you can get some good speed on it.....once you're use to it.........



:D

[filthyboatguy]

Sounds perfect for some track days on the Supermoto next year, it's geared for about 103 mph, and with 50 hp at 290 lbs, performance is on par with the SV.

They are building a short "SuperMotard" style track right now that might be a blast on a SV, provided a jump and dirt portion are not in store, but I think they are.

Jeff

[javawhz]

I take Turn 1 at Streets about 90-100, and the back straight before the chicanes about 100 also. But the rest of the track is pretty slow, perhaps between 40 and 70mph. I know Turn 4 which I absolutely HATE is perhaps at 15mph :p

By contrast the Big Track I can take Turn 1 at 100mph and pretty much haul at 100+ through all the turns except the Omega which is perhaps 50-60mph.

[Beppo]

Is : "Streets of Willow " the only R R track in that area ? Is it the same track as " Willow Springs Race Way "? The reason for such seemingly stupid question is that in the 60s (I'm a really old fart) my friends, all 3 of them, and I frequented the track. On several occasions we entered F I M sanctioned motorcycle events. My thoughts at this stage of the game is at your upcoming "Track Days" is it O K for one to spectate? And if so what is the cost?
Beppo.

[Burst]

Beppo, I am pretty sure that you could come out and watch for no cost, but you would have to contact Dustin Coyner (http://www.socalsvriders.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=332) to be sure. He is the one who is setting up the day for us.

The Streets of Willow is located at the Willow Springs International Raceway. It is one of the many tracks they now have on the grounds at WSIR.

Click here for maps of WSIR tracks (http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/maps.asp)

There's also a new track called the horse theif mile as well as an oval I think.

[calversv]

a buddy who races willow spent the day with MTC on Streets and Horse Thief and here's what he had to say:

On Wednesday, I went to a track day with www.mtctrackday.com They had a $150 special where we could run both the streets of willow and horse thief mile. I am soooooo glad I took the day off. The weather was a perfect 70 degrees, and there was just a gentle breeze all day. The best thing was that there was only maybe 20 riders total, for both of the tracks.

I hadn't been on the streets of willow since they repaved it, but it is *a lot* better now. In addition to the fresh black top, they made the track wider on turn 4, and also the last sharp left hander before the skidpad.

Horse thief mile was fun too. At first, I really did not like it... mainly because of the scary blind turns. The track is extremely tight... my fzr400 is very nimble, but the narrow powerband was difficult to deal with. Eventually though, I began to enjoy it a little more when I followed one of the MTC instructors around that knew some faster/smoother lines.

I also had a chance to swap bikes with other riders... an R1, a cbr F4, a ducati monster, and an sv650. But the highlight of the day was riding Kelly Baker's 1981 yamaha SR500 race bike. That little single was awesome... I dunno how the heck everyone else races those shaky things, but there is something inherently cool about skinny tires, sh*t brakes, monster torque, numb hands, and blurry vision! I think it'd be fun to race one of those... hmmmmm.... maybe next season???

-Alfred

[Orpheos]

When did they repave streets? I was just there on Oct 30th and it had been recoated, but they didn't wait long enough for that to take and turns 4 and 9 were all shot to hell. You either have to take them super tight or super wide. Go down the middle and you'll likely get ousted.

[neattoes3000]

Hey Guys,

I know you all just got back from a track day there that I'm still bitter that I didn't get to go. Dammit! When is the next Sv track day? Anyway, I'm going to the streets for the first time next month and was wondering if you guys can give me any tips? Are there parts of the track I should avoid. What kind of speeds are possible at that track? NOt like it matters, I plan on cover up the speedo anyway. I'm really excited though, so any pointers will help.

Thanks.

Craig

[Golden_Eternity]

Don't run wide in two, watch the bumps in four, have a blast through the bowl, learn how to go straight through the chicane and take it easy on cold tires...

Might wanna take a look at some recent track day threads.

[NukleoN]

Go easy at first on cold tires..get to know the track...Ye don't need to slow down much for the first corner. Look way through the turn in the bowl coz it's tighter than ye might think.
Straighten out the chicane..take a wide line at the skidpad and get on the gas early. Also, the double apex left turn (turn 3 I think) is good...stay toward the outside when you exit to set yourself up for the very tight right at turn 4.

[GetnJgyWitit]

what day are you going craig?


Don't slow down for turn one! you can take it at about 110mph no prob! fUN AS HELL!

[Burst]

turn 1, wide open throttle(it will prolly take you some time to get comfortable going into it at 110mph) until right about the apex.... set up wide, apex, exit wide to set up for turn two. Hard on the brakes while setting up for 2

turn 2 is a bit flat as far as the camber goes. Take your pick for a line, just dont turn in too early or you will likely end up off-roading on the exit. the track almost seems to drop away to the outside when you turn in too early.

turn 3, DO NOT push it with this corner on cold tires. Seen many people crash in this corner because it is a downhill to uphill off-camber transition, with a few bumps and cracks in it just for good measure. You can find a smooth line through it, just sorta have to double apex it.

turn 4, this corner just sucks. There is no *good* way through it. Just take it easy as there are some severe bumps and it is a very low speed turn

turn 5 and 6, pretty basic just watch for bumps, frontend seems to like to come up a bit coming out of 5 and you can end up with a wiggle going into 6.

turn 7, just haul ass, one of my favorite places to pass. For some reason people are somewhat timid in this corner.

Turn 8(the bowl) set up wide, turn in tight and give it some gas. it is an increasing radius so you can gain quite a bit of speed coming out onto the back straight.

The chicane, stay to the right at the end of hte back straight and you can just go straight through the chicane.

Turn 11, watch for bumps... find a smooth line through and you can carry some decent speed through it.

turn 12 is smooth no worries in this corner.

skidpad, watch the cracks in the skidpad and run a little wider than you think you need to. It is basically a double apex but the lack of visual marker on the inside makes it awkward at best your first few times around.

have fun man!

[NukleoN]

Good tips Burst. :D Wha choo doin' up so late?

[Burst]

just sending out some pdf catalogs to customers....

[GMAN]

Oh, and if you see me standing on the inside of the bowl, give me the finger. Makes for a great pic...assuming you don't crash while doing so. :D

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by GMAN
Makes for a great pic...assuming you don't crash while doing so. :D

It'd probably make a great pic anyway :D

[bwarbiany]

Great tips Gregg...

Turn 2: I find that apexing this one pretty late helps me, for the reason Gregg mentioned. Turning in early points you right at the other side of the track :eek:

Turn 4: Very tight. Set up outside for this one. My time at the streets I was following someone who continuously took 4 wrong. It's VERY tight and more than a 90-degree bend. If you turn in too early or start too far inside, you'll be aimed right at the other side of the track and have to get heavy on the brakes. Set up outside and you'll be fine. I had a tough time getting in front of the guy that was doing that, and was able to drive off 4 well enough to pass around the outside of 5.

[cracked lid]

Originally posted by bwarbiany
Great tips Gregg...

Turn 2: I find that apexing this one pretty late helps me, for the reason Gregg mentioned. Turning in early points you right at the other side of the track :eek:

Turn 4: Very tight. Set up outside for this one. My time at the streets I was following someone who continuously took 4 wrong. It's VERY tight and more than a 90-degree bend. If you turn in too early or start too far inside, you'll be aimed right at the other side of the track and have to get heavy on the brakes. Set up outside and you'll be fine. I had a tough time getting in front of the guy that was doing that, and was able to drive off 4 well enough to pass around the outside of 5.

Was it me? I only got 4 right a few times all day it seemed.

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by cracked lid
Was it me? I only got 4 right a few times all day it seemed.

Nope, not you...

I don't remember where I passed you :D

[TIE_Pilot]

turn 4, this corner just sucks. There is no *good* way through it. Just take it easy as there are some severe bumps and it is a very low speed turn


Glad it wasn't just me... I tried a different line through there on every lap, they all suck... if you're going slow enough though, the BUMP in the middle is actually kind of fun, it gives just enough energy to shift your body to the other side of the bike for the transition.

[cyclox]

Originally posted by TIE_Pilot
Glad it wasn't just me... I tried a different line through there on every lap, they all suck... if you're going slow enough though, the BUMP in the middle is actually kind of fun, it gives just enough energy to shift your body to the other side of the bike for the transition.

The instructors at the STAR school were pulling wheelies over this bump in turn 4. Was pretty cool to watch.

Pridmore's advice on the turn was the same as Burst's: there's no fast way through the turn, so get through it and get on the gas for good drive out of the turn.

[speedster1219]

my front end kept on coming up on turn four....turn 11 claimed three bikes last track day.......but it was awesome time....Greg pretty much nailed it all...GOOD LUCK

[GMAN]

Originally posted by bwarbiany
It'd probably make a great pic anyway :D

Oo, yeah. A nice crash-sequence. Hmm...poster sized too! :D

[calversv]

Originally posted by Burst
turn 1, wide open throttle(it will prolly take you some time to get comfortable going into it at 110mph) until right about the apex.... set up wide, apex, exit wide to set up for turn two. Hard on the brakes while setting up for 2

have fun man!

the other option is not to brake for turn 2. hit turn one from mid to inside and it dumps you wide for turn 2 (since you're already hanging off turn one, no need to straighten up for 2. just ease off the throttle after you hit turn one. after 1, engine break, drop a gear and rev match for turn two then hit it hard. wait on the outside until last minute before hitting the apex of 2 - this means you flick the bike fairly quickly so you don't run wide exiting 2.

do the same after the chicane for turn 11. don't brake, just drop a gear and rev-match.

turn 4- stay wide before entering and flick the bike quickly. it'll dump you on the inside of turn 5. flick the bike hard again to the left and gas it.

either way - braking or not - find what's comfortable and have fun. i used to brake but i found at the last track day that my entry speed is faster without braking.

[bwarbiany]

Remember though, you're on an R6, not an SV... To some extent there are different characteristics...

For example, coming through turn 1, I'd be full throttle, hanging off, swing wide for 2 while dropping two gears, and let engine braking and light front brakes slow me down, with a late apex...

I agree completely on the turn 4-5 suggestion though...


BTW, something for the chicane that hasn't been stated... You do have to turn. The last left at the end of the chicane is sharp enough that you have to lean a little to get through. I noticed that it helps a lot to get leaned before you get to the apex and aim very close to the apex. I found some rough pavement a few feet out from the apex, as well as the fact that you're going through a dip. My first hot lap in the morning I almost lost it...

[calversv]

there is a difference between the r6 and the sv. i'm only on 3rd gear after turn 1. i'm on 2nd gear until i the chicane. i drop back to 2nd for turn 11 until i hit the front straight.

so, to edit my post - first get your self an r6 then follow my suggestions ;)

[neattoes3000]

I have a 636 so I bet is somewhere in the middle. I want my bike screaming so I'll probably be in a lower gear than I need too, until I get comfortable carrying more speed in the corners. Thanks for all the tips. I'm so excited, so who all is going out on the 10th with me?

Craig

[calversv]

just spoke to pacific tracktime rep who said there will be about 25-30 riders per group "since it's a small track." she said there are more riders per group on the big track.

i think i'm out on this one unless the rep is mistaken. i don't like an overcrowded track which sux cause it means i'll miss may for a track day - trackdayz and mtc are running trackdays the end of may but i'm out-of-state those days.

[calversv]

only took a several hours to cave in. can't wait until end of june for another trackday so i signed up. man. i'm addicted. see you there, craig.

[deno]

good turn summary Greg.

Originally posted by Burst
Turn 8(the bowl) set up wide, turn in tight and give it some gas. it is an increasing radius so you can gain quite a bit of speed coming out onto the back straight.



also watch out for the camber change towards the end of the turn when the bowl is no longer a bowl.

and be careful passing around around the outside, as there is a bump about halfway through on the high line.

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by deno
and be careful passing around around the outside, as there is a bump about halfway through on the high line.

I found what seemed to be a dip right near the apex... The suspension would compress pretty hard through there, putting foot, peg, and knee (finally!) on the ground.

[slowpoke]

Turns 3,4,5 and 6 are repaved at Streets of Willow!:D

There's also more pavement to the inside of turn 4.

[acer66]

Talking about bringing a post back from the dead ;)

So they just repaved it?

I think I need to do a track day to confirm this!

[J.Moto]

I can't believe they left two dips right on the curb of 4B!

Actually, that and some other bumps shouldn't be an issue for me once i get the front end dialed in more. I spent much time just getting used to the bike, and remember what the track was like. This year I've not done much riding at all yet, and on top of that the bike is new to me (man, what a harsh powerband...this bike needs the most throttle control of any I've ridden yet).

My fastest race lap was just under 1:33 (fastest practice laps were about 1:36). I actually had to slow down because my arms were getting ferociously pumped. That, and the guy that passed me on the straight had just enough power to keep me behind him every time we came out of a corner. With no one right behind me I figured, "Oh, well." I wasn't gonna push myself until my hand couldn't even squeeze the brakes.

I THINK getting under 1:30 shouldn't be much of a problem with a couple or few more days on the track and some forks that don't want to bounce and shake everywhere, including when I should still be on the gas over the back crest. And then I will look at a silencer and cam, which supposedly will give another 7-8 HP to the rear without sacrificing reliability. That's a lot when you are starting out with a 240 lb bike with 46 HP.