Is valve adjustment necessary?

[dillweed]

I asked a dealer how much the 4,000-mile service would be, and he gave me two quotes - with and without valve adjustment.

The funny thing was, the valve adjustment only added like $40......even though you have to take off the cam covers and all that shit to do it, right?

And why is it that I don't even see valve adjustments listed in the owner's manual? Are they even necessary on this bike?

[linp]

In your manual, turn to page 2-8. Tappet Clearance - inspect every 24,000 km (15,000 miles, 24 months).

There's a handy maintenance schedule chart under the "Downloads" section in case you're wondering.

[bwarbiany]

And don't pay the dealer for the service... You can do it yourself quite easily, and I'm sure some of us would be willing to help... I'll help if I have time (and you have a torque wrench ;) )

Brad

[Setter32]

Let's have a valve adjustment party!!!!!!!!!

My bike's at 20,000..............and it probably needs adjustments.......

Hell............ I need adjustments........

Lets have an adjustment party!!!!

......uh..............and bring you sistas...............


:D

[Kurt'sSV]

My bike's ready for adjustments too, and it's definitelly something I don't know how to do myself.

[Burst]

Lets do it..... I have already said (a number of times) anyone who needs to do this is welcome to come down to my place and work on it here. My bike is due for this as well.

When do we want to do it?

[Kurt'sSV]

Please don't do it on this Sunday (8/11) 'cause I'll be gone. And don't do it next Saturday (8/17) because I have traffic school (got a ticket in my little Civic). But any other time would be great!:D

[bwarbiany]

I've still got 3K miles to go, but I'm sure doing it early won't hurt ;)

Brad

[linp]

Sunday, August 18th Wrenchfest? ;)

[Kurt'sSV]

Mr. Kurt is down with that!:geek:

[Burst]

Sounds good to me.

:D :squid: :D

[bwarbiany]

Going to probably not be in a mood to do any wrenching, since I'll have to get my place in order... 8/24 or 8/25 work?

Brad

[linp]

I have a test on the 24th, and money making opportunity on the 25th....
Need help moving? You've gotta come, Brad!

[bwarbiany]

The issue isn't needing help, I got that... The issue is that I've got things like beds and stereos and TV's to set up, which I was planning on doing Sunday... But I'll see what I can do, I can probably put it off ;)

Brad

[bwarbiany]

BTW, where are we going to get shims?

Brad

[buymenow00]

Get yer shims at Radio Shack...they sell an assorted pack of small washers for electronics stuff, and you will have enough shims for four bikes I think. You will have a lot of extra ones that are the wrong size, but don't worry about it, the whole bag costs less than $3.00. Beware of trying different ones that say they are 3mm washers!! I tried a set that I bought at a radio control hobby store and they were just a tad too big and would not operate properly...the Radio Shack ones have been tested and proven to work!

[Burst]

I believe Brad was referring to the tappet shims. They are what adjusts the amount of tappet clearance. I think you have to order them from Suzuki.

Now here is the problem. We won't know what size shims are needed until we tear down the bikes. At which point we then would order them. A week later we get the shims..... So, here are our options.

A- Everyone check the clearance on their own and order shims.
or
B- Everyone come down here one weekend. We figure out what size shims everyone needs and place one big order for shims. Then the next weekend everyone comes back and we complete the project.

:D :squid: :D

[Setter32]

If your avatar gonna show you at a nice lean angle like that................... How about spending some money on leathers?

Your khaki (did I spelled that right?) flappin in the wind is freakin me out!

................................cheap bastard...........................

:D



PS: Chaparal got full leathers on sale for like......$300..........

...............................cheap ass bastard......................


:D

[Burst]

yeah yeah Rod, I know. Just so you know, I was wearing jeans that day. I know it is not ideal, but at least it was better than my usual canvas cargos. :D

:squid:

[buymenow00]

Whoops, my bad! Just trying to beat you to the answer again Gregg!! Ahhhh...those were the days...

(Yeah, lose the cotton lowers Squidly!) :D

[bwarbiany]

Okay, maybe we'll have to do it Sunday 8/18, and then the follow-up after the order on 8/24 or 8/25... I figured that would be a problem (Hmm, maybe mine will be at perfect clearance, and I won't have to worry... right)

Brad

[bwarbiany]

Isn't the kit like $200?

Brad

[Burst]

I think it is actually more than that. Which is why we won't be ordering the kit... :D Also why I suggested we measure and order, then come back and actually do the service the next week.

[bwarbiany]

Can you get prices per shim, so we know how much money to leave with you for the order when we come... That'll probably be easier than waiting to pay you the next weekend...

Brad

[BluBallz]

im pretty sure i need a valve adjustment... does anyone know the signs to look for when you THINK you may need one? and is anyone down to do one soon?

really curious what the signs of a needed tappet clearance are, im starting to get really wierd gas mileage... i get 95 miles before the yellow light starts to blink...

[dnakase]

I had my valves done at 4,000 miles. The clearence is so close that I doubt it will go out of spec for a long, long time. I was just paranoid and listened to a mechanic that was good, but needed the money.

[ward]

Originally posted by EviL4FuN
Same here... Whats the deal?

that happened to me,
then I chanagd plugs and now it's back to normal

[SUCATI]

Originally posted by BluBallz
im pretty sure i need a valve adjustment... does anyone know the signs to look for when you THINK you may need one? and is anyone down to do one soon?

You look down at the odometer/tripometer, make sure it's toggled to the odometer, and if it's near 15,000 then it's time.

That's how I knew.

[Padu]

Besides the service manual (which I have in pdf format), is there any other helpfull explanation on how to perform valve adjustment? Is that the same as tappet clearance? Is that a one day job? What special tools and parts do I need?

Enough questions for now... :D

[neill]

i have been told that the sv engine very rarely need valve adjustment

[LaPiñaLoca]

Padu, i'm up for a valve clearance check as well and i'll prbably need to adjust it cuz it was borderline about 15k ago. Anybody else need to check their valves? I'm in LA, we could probly use my house, I think i have all the tools.

aaron

[Padu]

That would be nice, except that LA is a little to far for me... Thanks anyway. My bike exceeded the 20K, and lately it's too noisy.

[Padu]

Does anybody know the part# for shims? Are they expensive?

[SUCATI]

So far at 28,000 miles I haven't had to "adjust" the valves. I have checked the clearance on them twice so far though. You have to remove the camshafts to remove and replace the adjustment shims. This is a very complicated job, so think twice about doing it yourself. You must be precise with your measurement of the current clearance and the size of the current shim and then calculate which shim will give you the correct clearance. Then you remove the camshafts and swap shims. Then you install the camshafts again and recheck the clearance. If you calculated correctly, then you're done. If not, you start all over again!

(It's much easier with shim over buckets like my CBX and BMW)

Good luck folks!

Mike

[Padu]

Thanks... I'm going to check it this weekend... I'm hoping I don't need to replace any shim, but in the case I need, I've already ordered a set of shims from ronayers. After this weekend, I'll have a set of assorted sized shims if anyone needs.

[SV650canuk]

Originally posted by neill
i have been told that the sv engine very rarely need valve adjustment


I just did a check at 36,000 km (22,000 miles, 18, 432.3 Imperial Hogheads, whatever) any they were fine -same as new.

That $40 charge for the check probably involves putting an ear close to the head and listening, nothing else.

You know if it's bad by hearing noise at the cams -it's either a chattering or a clicking, any other noise is likely the cam chain tensioner.

The cams are shims under buckets -needs fewer adjustments but is the biggest pain next to a Desmo head.

[cool trick: type "36000 kilometers to miles" in Google, get the result]

[Padu]

Originally posted by SV650canuk
[cool trick: type "36000 kilometers to miles" in Google, get the result]


Or divide it by 1.6 :)

[Tillers_Rule]

Im at just under 22,000 and have yet to do my valves, hopefully wont have to do it soon as I really dont feel like tearing into the engine, nor paying someone else to.

[Padu]

It would be nice if the next one doing valve adjustements publish a step-by-step pictorial pdf or web page...

[SV650canuk]

Originally posted by Padu
It would be nice if the next one doing valve adjustements publish a step-by-step pictorial pdf or web page...

the Clymer manual has pictorial step-by-step.

[Padu]

Bummer... me not have Clymer... anybody have its pdf online? If not, is it really worthy to buy additionally to the service manual (available in the downloads section)

[Tillers_Rule]

Originally posted by Padu
Bummer... me not have Clymer... anybody have its pdf online? If not, is it really worthy to buy additionally to the service manual (available in the downloads section)


well, since your such a nice guy, you could always buy it, have it scanned, then converted to .pdf format for the rest to use online:cool:

[Padu]

Isn't that against the law? :confused: :D

[Chevy]

are there any instructions on how to adjust the valves that are on this site?

[Chevy]

oops, never mind. it's all in the Valve, Tappet Clearance thread. thanks anyway.

[soulofadra6o]

how do i know when i need my valves adjusted? what kind of sound will it make, and any significant loss of power?

[sdlnxgk]

I was wondering the same thing, since the first day I had my bike has been making a metalic clicking sound.. to me sounds like a vw bug that is in need of a valve adjustment. The dealer says the SV's are loud like that but have heard other SV's and don't make that loud metalic clicking sound that would drown out a lawn mower. Anyone up for a valve adjustment party??? Or is there a way I can tell if i'm in need of a valve adjustment???

[pAint]

that clicking noise is prolly ur chain tensioner thingy that shows up on almost every SV every so oftem.

But yeah, i would like to know some of the symptoms i would look for if i need a valve adjustment.

[curley]

The valves get slammed shut by the valve springs.
The valve face contacts the hardened insert in the head ( called the valve seat).
These two parts wear.
As they wear, the clearance of the valve stem to the tappet/bucket/shim/cam - decreases.
Once the engine warms up all the different expansion rates come into play.
If your valves are too tight - you won't hear the tap tap sound.
Once the wear on the valve "face" (the sealing surface) and the wear on the valve seat ( the hardened insert in the head) takes up all the "valve clearance" ( the dimension you measure with a feeler gage) the valve will stay open a tiny little bit ( usually the exhaust side wears first due to the exhaust gas temperature) - and you will have a leaky valve - the leak will grow and burn away some of the metal on the valve face and valve seat - you have a burnt valve.

Conditions to watch for - hard starting due to loss of compression, loss of power to due loss of compression, an excessive lean condition as a leaky intake valve can allow the next charge to burn in the intake tact, high engine temperature.

Tap Tap tap when it's cold is a good thing as the engine warms up the tap tap should go away - but the best thing to do is to check your valve clearance ( once a year?) and keep an eye on your cooling system to make sure it keeps your heads cool and all those clearances in the engine as Suzuki designed them.

[since413]

There are no sounds associated with valves that need adjustment unless they are so far gone that they are about to fail, that is why they give us a schedule to do them regardless. The metallic sound is almost always the cam chain adjusters that fail, and should both be replaced with manual ones when you get your valves adjusted. If the valves stretch or sink into the seat they get 'tight' and don't stay closed long enough to transfer heat to the head, and if the cam wears they get 'loose' and once out of range the wear accelerates quickly.

[SVNerd]

since413 - where can one get SV "manual ones" (cam chain adjusters) ?

[sdlnxgk]

Originally posted by paint
that clicking noise is prolly ur chain tensioner thingy that shows up on almost every SV every so oftem.

But yeah, i would like to know some of the symptoms i would look for if i need a valve adjustment.

Paint can it be adjusted or do I have to install a manual adjuster??



Originally posted by since413
There are no sounds associated with valves that need adjustment unless they are so far gone that they are about to fail, that is why they give us a schedule to do them regardless. The metallic sound is almost always the cam chain adjusters that fail, and should both be replaced with manual ones when you get your valves adjusted. If the valves stretch or sink into the seat they get 'tight' and don't stay closed long enough to transfer heat to the head, and if the cam wears they get 'loose' and once out of range the wear accelerates quickly.


why does my SV sound louder then any other new SV that I have heard??? I have only had my bike for like three months and it has always been loud, friends have the same year as me and not as loud as mine is...

What is the best way to find out what this noise is and if it's gonna end up hurting the engine in the long run without taking it back to the dealer??? Or should I just take it back since it has a one year warranty??

[since413]

Originally posted by SVNerd
since413 - where can one get SV "manual ones" (cam chain adjusters) ?

APE in Burbank sells them for around $50 each, they come with instructions, but make sure you take the valve covers and cam silencer pads off to install them to get them just right. On first Gen the rear one is a PITA because it is so close to the exhaust, but once installed, you have peace of mind. They don't come with the gaskets, so ask for them separate.

[dodgy]

Originally posted by neill
i have been told that the sv engine very rarely need valve adjustment

Guys, I've checked mine at 24,000 and 50,000 K's. Hasn't needed touching...
And a friend (courier) has over 100,000 K's on his without adjustment.
Unless something has gone wrong you will just inspect them...

[doub1etap]

I am at the 30,000 mile service on my bike and I'm doing the valve adjustment. Could someone double check my calculations?
Thank you thank you

Front Cylinder
Intake:
Valve 1: .10 (spec: .10-.20)
Valve 2: .09 (spec: .10-.20) Out of Spec. Current Shim 170, Replace with 165

Exhaust:
Valve 1: .20 (spec: .20-.30)
Valve 2: .15 (spec: .20-.30) Out of Spec. Current Shim 168 Replace with 160



Rear Cylinder
Intake:
Valve 1: .10 (spec: .10-.20)
Valve 2: .10 (spec: .10-.20)

Exhaust:
Valve 1: .19 (spec: .20-.30) Out of Spec. Current Shim 168 Replace with 160
Valve 2: .20 (spec: .20-.30)

[dodgy]

Hey Mr. doub1etap, are you sure those measurements are right?
I'm not having a go at you, but it's the only SV I've heard of to be so far out so quickly. I find valve clearance checking to be a bit unreliable with standard guages, usually because you are flexing the end and so they appear tighter than expected.
They seem very consistent on the 'tight' end of the scale, and if correct I'd be changing them all...
See if you can get a set of "Go-No Go" feeler guages. They are made by Snap-On, Lisle etc. http://www.lislecorp.com/tool_detail.cfm?detail=1154
They make valve clearance checking a lot easier IMHO.

[newbe]

Hi guys im sure most of you had the valves checked at some point or another. But besides the check up how offten did you realy need to adj them??? I know honda recommend to have then adj every 15,000mile but many times they are perfect even at 90,000 mile. What is your take on the SV ?? How offten did you realy had to adj them???


Alex

[stingray]

harder you ride, more often you should check. if it stays @ the upper band more often (race/track) then you should check annually. if normal street riding, regular intervals is fine.

adjust the exhaust side loose (closer to 0.3mm), intake side towards middle (0.15mm).

FWIW, hotcams sells a shim kit for i think $100 or so. tolerances in dia. are not as good as the OEM but should be a cheap alternative for the DIYer. i doubt anyone has a good OEM kit. @ $5-7/shim, a good collection's worth several hundred. remember to mic ea. shim to confirm their sizes.

the excessive noise you hear when your engine is idling isn't your valves. that's a common misconception. it's the cam chain.

[doub1etap]

Originally posted by dodgy
Hey Mr. doub1etap, are you sure those measurements are right?
I'm not having a go at you, but it's the only SV I've heard of to be so far out so quickly. I find valve clearance checking to be a bit unreliable with standard guages, usually because you are flexing the end and so they appear tighter than expected.
They seem very consistent on the 'tight' end of the scale, and if correct I'd be changing them all...
See if you can get a set of "Go-No Go" feeler guages. They are made by Snap-On, Lisle etc. http://www.lislecorp.com/tool_detail.cfm?detail=1154
They make valve clearance checking a lot easier IMHO.

That's a very good point.. my feeler gauges are some no-name cheapy. Today I bought a craftsman feeler gauge and I'm putting my cams back in to measure again. Thanks Dan

[djb1]

I did 36500 miles from new on my 2001 SV650S and had the valve clearances checked iaw the schedule but they never needed to be adjusted. I think that's quite common for modern bikes, SVs included.

[Knightshade]

I need to do this on my bike...but I have noooo idea how.

[burnt_toast]

Usually you dont need to adjust. If at the first check you see everything is in spec, you're in for awhile before you need an adjustment, usually. But sometime after the first inspection you need adjustments, and more adjustments, and so on until it settles in. That's why they ask every engine they build to get checked, They dont know which ones will stay in spec and which ones wont. Valve inspections are a paint, and adjustments even more so, but they are necessary. If you do all your own work and you have experience, you can usually guess the adjustment intervals on your own, but your still guessing. I have to go into my SV next month to check the valves. If everything is good I'm stoked. It's a race bike so I dont like to throw money at it, it already wants tires all the time.....
-toast

[SVOC]

I think I might get mine checked...

[Setter32]

.....let's have a...."check your valves".........party....

.....I wanna learn how to do this stuff....







:D

[Canary_Rider]

I'd be interested in a seeing someone who know what they're doing lead the way. At 17k and prolly need to inspect to stick with serv intervals. No noticeable need at this point....but...

[burnt_toast]

Wow, forgot about this thread.
Well, anyone in the high desert (Victorville) is welcome to come by on a weekend in November. I'll be moved in and ready 2 do valves on the SV again. I've got no qualms showing people how to do it. One of the things I like most about twins is having half the valves to inspect, and the SV is not too shabby. Biggest problem having people come over to adjust valves is the engine has to be cold i.e. trailered over.... It takes hours for the exhaust side to cool down all the way.
BTW, I taught myself how to adjust valves by reading the Clymer manual. It was confusing the first time (VFR750) but didn't need shims. The 2nd bike (Speed Triple 955i) did and I took it stripped down to the dealer and pointed which valve was out. They measured and installed (shim OVER bucket) for $20.00 after bitching over and over about liability. Once I said I didnt need a receipt (cash in pocket) they shut up and did it. After learning how to pull cams out (and time them when reinstalling) I started doing it all.
In short, you can teach yourself if you give yourself a little trust.

-Toast