Motorcycle Roads Rated

[illustr8dman]

I rode little T for the first time the other day and thought it was a deceptively slow road. You really can't haul balls around it least you find your self starting the wrong end of a decreasing radius corner. I took it easy but my average speed was still only 40 mph. I never got that impression when reading peoples post. I thought it would be a good idea to have roads listed with an average speed for beginer, moderate, and expert riders, as well as the number of DR Turns, as well as other hazards. posted by the people who are familiar with them.

For Instance I would want Gregg's opinion(as well as some of his money) on the Crest and Big T as he seems to ride these on a regular basis.

Whada ya think?

[zzzwillzzz]

greg thinks what I tell him to think, dontcha greg? j/k
i think it's too hard to rate them that way. you could rate them with a relative number according to ave speed ie: upper big tujunga (nicknamed 9 mile) would be a 5 out of 5 because fast riders rip through it at 100+ mph.
little t would be a 2 on the speed index,
latigo and decker a 1,
palomar a 2,
the crest a 4,
hwy 33 a 3 or 4,
piuma a 2,
westlake blvd a 1,
mt emma 6,
big pines hwy 2,
hwy 150 near ojai 1
pine mountain/lockwood valley 2,
cerro noreste 3

[bling_thing]

Where's Mt Emma?

[Knightshade]

palomar is a 2 then eh? I think if I ever go up there again and ride it...my speed will probably be equivalent to a -2 then...slowpoke..

[NukleoN]

Speed doesn't make a road fun...in fact, if the road requires too much speed then you're putting yourself at risk of tickets and accidents with locals, deer, etc.

I'd rather have a slightly tighter road I can take around 50 mph with some good corners I can see through.

As for roads, I'll rate the ones I've ridden thus far (1=lame, 5=kickass):

Angeles Crest Road: 5. This road is hella fun, especially the lower section. You can keep a fairly even pace and yet experience plenty of great corners...many which you can see all the way through. It gets bumpier the higher you go and that makes it about a 3 in that particular section.

Little Tujunga. 3. I've ridden it exactly twice, and it's fun, but challenging. It'll take me a few runs to not feel like it kicked my ass.

Bouqet Canyon road. 4. Fun road...some clear corners you can see through, well maintained, beautiful scenery. Not too difficult and can be taken at a consistent pace.

San Francisquito Canyon. I give it a 4. More variety..tight and challenging in some spots, a bit of a cruise in others (bus stops, locals). Near the end when it hits Copper Hill it gets really fun and a bit challenging with a decreasing radius corner here and there. Fun.

Highway 33. Rates a 4. I took this road north on my way to Lockwood Canyon. You can also continue north on 33 to get to Cerro Noreste/Mil Portero/Cuddly Valley, which I plan to ride soon...I've heard great things about the aforementioned road. Mem memory of this road was great...fun and twisty.

Highway 150. Fun and relaxing. A 3.5.

Elizabeth Lake Road. 2. Relaxing, it's fun to ride if you just want to cruise and it has a few nice sweepers. An interesting little town on one side that is about 50 years behind the times (but they still take credit cards).

Lockwood Canyon...a 4. Challenging in spots...I hit some mud in one shady corner and had a two wheel skid which was crazy..but I kept on the gas and stayed upright. Some water crossings which could be deeper at different times of the year (maybe a foot at most). Fun road...some woop dee dooo type undulations in the road which are rollercoastery and fun. Interesting remote buildings out here.

Pine Canyon Road. 4. Interesting, breathtaking scenery. It seems to be cut from huge hills and valleys...in other words, at times the road seems to disappear and you feel like you're flying or are on a mountain climb. Some challenging downhill sections, fun road in general.

Tuna Canyon Road. 5. Hella fun one way road which dumps onto PCH. KICKASS. I've only been on it once..but a one way road? You can beat it with a stick.

Ortega Highway: 5. I've only ridden this a few times, but my memory of this road is that it was outstanding. Beautiful sweeping curves, well-maintained road and I could see through many of the turns.

Old Topanga Canyon road. 4. Some great corners, but a bit trafficky unless you go at off hours.

Laurel Canyon Road. 0. This road is a commuter nightmare which sucks ass. The road is in terrible condition and there are deep, heavily textured manhole plates right at the apex of many turns...I only brough this road up as a joke. It's completely packed with cars most of the time. :D

Mulholland Drive: TIGHT. A 3 unless you like a lot of blind corners. I remember being scared of it...course this when I was first starting to ride.

Kanaan Dume Road. 3. Nice sweepers, more utility than fun, but good scenery and a good path between PCH and Agoura. It's got some cops on it and it's rather high speed if you want to have any fun, so take it chill and enjoy the scenery...otherwise you'll come round a bend and see a cop parked in your rearview mirror...DOH! I was croozin' on a rented R6 once and this very thing happened, but I was taking it easy so no light-up that time.

Malibu Canyon Road. Fairly fun, but trafficky. A 4 if you can get a clear path. This road also leads to PCH. D

And a few more...but hey if you want road reviews..check out www.pashnit.com

[DOC]

Sorry Nukleon but Laurel canyon is for dirt bikes only. I don't know why you took a street bike there. ( Hah!)
DoC

[slowpoke]

Little T is one of the few local (LA) roads that changes personality quickly. Most roads will let you get into a rhythm for a good stretch.

How about a "most likely to biff" rating?

Little T: 4 - speed changes quickly and not much run off.
Angeles Crest: 2 (before Newcomb's) - just keep the throttle in check. People that die there are going too fast or passing on the double solid. 3 after Newcomb's - lots of snakes past Newcomb's.
Latigo: 3 - Fun.
GMR: 2 - No real surprises. Great road and easy to ride your first time.
Mulholland past Kanan: 4.5 - really tight, dirty turns can surprise you.

These are all fun, just some are more dangerous than others.

[NukleoN]

Most likely to biff? Laurel Canyon downhill at night...what a nightmare. Ok maybe Little T at night heh. I did Bouquet at night and it was pretty easy except I had to be sure and not outrun my lights.

[cyclox]

Originally posted by NukleoN
Most likely to biff? Laurel Canyon downhill at night...what a nightmare. Ok maybe Little T at night heh. I did Bouquet at night and it was pretty easy except I had to be sure and not outrun my lights.


I made the mistake of taking Laurel Canyon one night last year. It was a nightmare. Traffic, crappy road, road construction (metal plates, cones, dirt, ground up road awaiting resurfacing, edge hazards galore). Never again.

Rode Little T this morning. It could definitely bite back if you're not careful. The first downhill section is pretty steep and challenging. I really need to get that front suspension upgraded...

I never see it mentioned, but Big Pines Highway (branches off Angeles Crest before Wrightwood) is really really fun. going East to West, it's like a roller coaster. One of my favorite loops out of Pasadena is Angeles Crest -> Big Pines -> Valyermo -> Pearblossom Hwy -> Soledad Canyon Rd -> Sand Canyon Rd -> Little Tujunga -> 210 home. If you want to avoid the 210, you can hop onto Big Tujunga to Angeles Forest and return via the Crest.

[Setter32]

...ORTEGA!........ORTEGA!..........ORTEGA!.....

....

.....oh.......I dunno.......

....I wouldn't rate Ortega a 5 (on the speed scale)...

....if you're going over a 100 mph on that road...........you're suicidal.......or you're a fool........

.....either way..........if you're one of these individuals.........stay the hell away from me........

....I would say Ortega is more like a 4.......

....now a days.........I'm averaging 65 -70 mph on her...........and that's fast enough of some nice lean angles.........but still give room for error.......

....I've seen people averaging 70-75 comfortably......

....averaging 80+ is pushing it........

....averaging 100+?.........you oughta be shot on sight......

.....but.......there are some short stretchs on the Ortega....that you can do 100 on.......safely.....:D.....






:D

[Setter32]

.....Palomar sucks.....

....anything that is a 2 or below..........sucks.....




:D

[GetnJgyWitit]

This just seems odd to rate a road on how fast you can take it. If you are doing Palomar at 40-50mph you are with some of the fast guys up there. That is only because it is super tight and technical. There are some sections on tight side that you can get up to near 100mph range, but the speeds are typically lower. Now the fast side on the other hand can be taken at Ortega speeds! :D

[cyclox]

Seems like it's hard to have a single number rating. Getting back to illustr8ed's idea, how about a rating system that includes:

- road condition
1 = dirty, full of tar snakes, bumpy
5 = smooth and silky
- speed
S = slow, M = moderate, F = fast
- twistiness
1 = highway, 5 = lotsa hairpin turns

- traffic?

accordingly, I'd rate Little T as 4M4. But that's just my opinion. It's kinda like ratings for rock climbs. What's a 5.10 climb for me might be a 5.8 for you.

There will be some correlation between condition and speed and twistiness and speed.

Just tossing this out for debate.

[Kurt'sSV]

Originally posted by cyclox
Seems like it's hard to have a single number rating. Getting back to illustr8ed's idea, how about a rating system that includes:


How about this is too damn complicated and you just need to learn the road on your own like we did back in my day.


:D

[cyclox]

no no no. everything must have an objective rating!

We can get accurate GPS data on every road. Then calculate a measure of three dimensional tortuosity. This will reflect the overall elevation gain and the twistiness of the road.

We will also measure the curvature and inclination of each turn to get a rating of the amount of decreasing radius turns per mile as well as the amount of off-camber pavement.

Factor in average atmospheric conditions, deer population, pollen count (for those with allergies), amount of oil left on the road and proximity to medical facilities and we should be done.

or we could just ride, like that old curmudgeon kurt sez.

[Setter32]

Originally posted by Kurt'sSV
How about this is too damn complicated and you just need to learn the road on your own like we did back in my day.


:D

....HOW ABOUT....YOU SHUT THE HELL UP!!!....

.....

.....MISTER..."I ONLY RIDE TRACKS NOW".......

...uuuuu...........you annoy me......:mad: ......






....tee hee....




:D

[slowpoke]

Originally posted by cyclox
no no no. everything must have an objective rating!

We can get accurate GPS data on every road. Then calculate a measure of three dimensional tortuosity. This will reflect the overall elevation gain and the twistiness of the road.

We will also measure the curvature and inclination of each turn to get a rating of the amount of decreasing radius turns per mile as well as the amount of off-camber pavement.

Factor in average atmospheric conditions, deer population, pollen count (for those with allergies), amount of oil left on the road and proximity to medical facilities and we should be done.

or we could just ride, like that old curmudgeon kurt sez.

Don't forget to add likelyhood of Speed Traps (+/-ST) and if it is a V-Twin or I4 type road.:D

[NukleoN]

Hey Setter...I didn't rate Ortega a 5 because of speed, but because of FUN factor, and I know now what kind of roads I love...SMOOTH roads, good visibility through many of the turns...no dirt, rocks, etc. The lower part of Angeles Crest and Ortega are my favorites so far...LIKE BUTTAH!

[DOC]

Curmudgeon, isn't that some kind of a pastry?
DoC

[joeb1113]

Originally posted by NukleoN
The lower part of Angeles Crest and Ortega are my favorites so far...

I've only ridden Angeles Crest maybe 6 or 7 times (just got the bike in Nov.) but I have literally never been able to get any further than that first fire station without getting stuck behind some caravan of SUVs and minivans that have not only never heard of turn-outs, but think the passing lanes are there to let one SUV very slowly pass one minivan.

It's pretty much always loosened up once I get past Angeles Forest though, or Mount Wilson at the worst - so for me, so far at least, the first part of Angeles Crest has pretty much sucked but the motorcycle nirvana that exists just past it makes it all worthwhile.

I really only have time to ride on weekends - is there a trick to finding a time when this first part is less maddening? (Let me guess - weekdays, right?)

[doub1etap]

Early morning is quite nice. Then get off the mountain before the more crazy people wake up.

[joeb1113]

Makes sense. Are we talking 8am or 6am?

[DOC]

8 am is pushing it.
DoC

[DOC]

Oh btw, just a word of warning. There's a shooting range in Little T that's very popular with the law enforcement bunch. I'm constantly seeing cop cars of all types and from all sorts of different cities. It would be a real smart move to keep your speed down until after you pass the shooting range. It's a mile or two up the road on the left side shortly after the Forest Service station.

[Lonedog]

1S1 IS NO FUN!

hwy 33 is much more difficult than hwy150.

[zzzwillzzz]

Originally posted by Lonedog
1S1 IS NO FUN!

hwy 33 is much more difficult than hwy150. but that last mile of 150 over the hill into ojai rules, really tight, good pavement. if you get to bocalli's (the italian restaurant at the bottom) before they open you can just go back and forth on that last mile to work up an appetite...

[harbiho]

Originally posted by zzzwillzzz
but that last mile of 150 over the hill into ojai rules, really tight, good pavement. if you get to bocalli's (the italian restaurant at the bottom) before they open you can just go back and forth on that last mile to work up an appetite...

I remember you doing that the last time we went there.:D

Most of the time there are just a lot of cars out there though.:(

[Lonedog]

Most of the time there are just a lot of cars out there though.

ya that's why 150 is a bit scary most of the time.

[illustr8dman]

Okay Cyclox has got the idea right.... I wasn't really thinking of some weird Arbitrary rating system like Mullhulland is 'FAB' because I can stop at 'F'at Burger before going down Cahuenga west were the first part of Mullhuland has a nice open sweeper that's 'A'llright but the rest of the road is 'B'umpy. I am glad to see that there is some interest in this thread tho'.

I was thinking of some standard rating system for the weirdo like me, that spends hours reading post and rarely has the opportunity to ride with other members but wants a heads up before ridding a new mountain road. Or if someone is visiting, say, their grandparents in Alpine....

Say the Road: Mullhuland E to W.(101-405)
An average speed would be good: (A)mateur, 35 (N)ovice, 45 (E)xpert, 65
Road conditions: Bumpy, Sandy, Old Asphalt
Road character: Back and forth twisty, 3 sweepers, 5 hard turns, no DR's, 5 straights.

I know is overtly technical and dorky and that nothing beats the real
knowledge gained through actual experience but I was thinking of this as an exercise in crash prevention.

'5' for kickass? No offense... but I'm stupid enough to let that kind of rating system get me into trouble.





........hmmm. Education suffers because those who want to learn and those who know to well both want to dispense with the lesson as quickly as possible.

[NukleoN]

No worries Illustrated...

Let me do one for ya...

Say the Road: The Road to HELL
An average speed would be good: As Slow as possible, sinner!Road conditions: Hot and dripping with lava
Road character: Evil. Pure fuckin' unadulterated EVIL.

No really..that was for fun. Let me do one for real(s).

The Road: Little Tujunga Road

Speed, skill level: Varies, but generally a slower, technical ride...around 50 or less. Requires judicious use of brakes as well as excellent throttle control, especially on downhill sections. Little runoff, best ridden uphill toward the northwest (and better for the uninitiated).

Road conditions: Bumpy in many sections. Fairly clean otherwise...beware of rocks around blind corners...occasional slides but maintenance crews seem to respond quickly enough.

Road character: Tight, twisty, many challenging blind turns. Little runoff in most sections. Downhill sections are tricky. Some banked turns. Nice section near top with several full-visibility turns.

Summary: This road is good but will bite if not taken well within your skill level. It will tend to expose mistakes in your riding style, but smoothness and proper entry speeds with good throttle control will be rewarded. Some excellent fun sections with full visibility turns back to back.

[bwarbiany]

You know, after the whole Alton Brown thing, I mentioned to my wife that the SV is kinda known as a "geek bike", what with all the engineers and computer nerds devoted to it...

But you all have officially raised the bar...

[NukleoN]

One should always strive to raise the bar...even-if-uhm...even if it's the bar on geekiness. Yeah. <pushes glass up bridge of nose>

Any up for some Dungeons and Dragons? Dahhhh roll for saving throws, coz you've got a surprise encounter with a Troglodyte wielding a +4 fist of unconsciousness.

[stough]

:rolleyes: :D

Thanks Nuke, but I parted ways with those guys Freshman year when they were sitting around a basically undecorated and squalid dorm room on milk crates playing a cool new module. And I thought, "That or cruising? I'll take rejection with the chance of getting lucky over guaranteeing that the opposite sex will be totally repulsed."

That was the right decision (the other one was "Turn to page 98 where a dismal and lonely ending awaits"). Trying to meet people breeds social skills while sitting on mike crates with geeks rolling savings throws annihilates your chance of successfully integrating with society... :sad:


;-)

Later,
Tim.

[stough]

I'm all about the GPS analysis method. You could take the GPS traces and give a rating based on curves per mile and characterize those curves. Someone with graphics programming skills could even make a "fly through" from the data.

Way cool.

-Tim :geek:

[NukleoN]

Thanks Nuke, but I parted ways with those guys Freshman year when they were sitting around a basically undecorated and squalid dorm room on milk crates playing a cool new module. And I thought, "That or cruising? I'll take rejection with the chance of getting lucky over guaranteeing that the opposite sex will be totally repulsed."

That was the right decision (the other one was "Turn to page 98 where a dismal and lonely ending awaits"). Trying to meet people breeds social skills while sitting on mike crates with geeks rolling savings throws annihilates your chance of successfully integrating with society...

Well, it worked for Gollum....my preciousssssss.

[illustr8dman]

Originally posted by NukleoN
No worries Illustrated...

Let me do one for ya...

Say the Road: The Road to HELL
An average speed would be good: As Slow as possible, sinner!Road conditions: Hot and dripping with lava
Road character: Evil. Pure fuckin' unadulterated EVIL.


Okay Good Times! Why are we in this handbasket again? :D

So yeah that's perfect... I read this thread, I got a good Idea of how I should start out... keeping in mind that Doc said Cops like to shoot their guns off, and I got myself a pretty good heads up on Little T.

I liked the idea of a Summary hadn't thought of that .....

Okay Keep 'em commin'

[cyclox]

Originally posted by illustr8dman
Okay Good Times! Why are we in this handbasket again? :D

So yeah that's perfect... I read this thread, I got a good Idea of how I should start out... keeping in mind that Doc said Cops like to shoot their guns off, and I got myself a pretty good heads up on Little T.


Speaking of that, I noticed that right by that shooting range there was a sign for some sort of juvenile probation camp right about there. Let's see, cops + shooting range + probation camp... maybe we should be wearing more kevlar when riding through here?

[SdGix]

You guys have way to much time on your hands....

......How about you just cruize out with some people that have a working knowledge of the road....and enjoy riding instead of sitting here talking about riding.

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by SdGix
You guys have way to much time on your hands....

......How about you just cruize out with some people that have a working knowledge of the road....and enjoy riding instead of sitting here talking about riding.

Because I'm sitting here at work, where I can't be riding :p

[DOC]

Originally posted by cyclox
Speaking of that, I noticed that right by that shooting range there was a sign for some sort of juvenile probation camp right about there. Let's see, cops + shooting range + probation camp... maybe we should be wearing more kevlar when riding through here? Hey, it's a nice friendly little neighborhood. I've been living here for almost 4 years and haven't been shot or mugged yet.
DoC

[NukleoN]

Hey, it's a nice friendly little neighborhood. I've been living here for almost 4 years and haven't been shot or mugged yet.
DoC

Well Doc, the cops who can't hit the broadside of a barn with their 9mm standard issues are busy training at Little T...that's all I need...cars wandering over the centerline on a challenging road with little runoff and bullets wizzing by! :D

Now did you hear about that freakazoid sniper shooting at motorists on the side of the freeway near Goleta? DAMN what's with the damn snipers? I mean, whaaaat's the deal?

[illustr8dman]

Originally posted by SdGix
You guys have way to much time on your hands....

......How about you just cruize out with some people that have a working knowledge of the road....and enjoy riding instead of sitting here talking about riding.

As I said before I was hoping for more of a heads up for the exteme social misfits like myself that rarely have an opportunity to ride with others and would rather be out riding than sitting here typing at 3 a.m.

Pickin' up what I'm layin' down?