Racetech springs and emulators

[Stinky]

I finally swapped out the stock springs for some .90 springs from Race Tech. Quick delivery and the svrider.com 25% discount is still on. Just call them and give them your username. Taking my time with some breaks and the actual job took about 3 hours. The longest part was setting up my friggin sag. It was also weird having to cut a smaller spacer than the stockers, but I guess it makes sense because the springs are stiffer and longer.
I went for a short ride today and man it makes a HUGE difference. Before this I only had 20wt oil to cure the dive. Now I realize how bad my forks were. Bumps were jarring to the bike and hitting undulations leaned over really upset the front. Now I know that my forks were seriously overdamped and the springs couldn't rebound fast enough. Now when I hit bumps, the tire just stays planted and rides smoothly over it. It also feels very solid in the turns now and the ride is actually smoother. I was also finally able to set my sag correctly and the preload caps actually do something on my bike.
Race Tech includes very good instructions that explain how to measure for cutting a spacer, and detailed instructions on setting sag. They give you a long spacer to cut and four washers.
This was probably the best mod I've done for the bike. It handles so much better.
Can't wait to see how a new shock would feel.

[PasCaTT]

I know this is old stuff to most of you but I put in my .90 spings with 20wt oil and emulators today. All I can say is wow. I didn't know a bike was supposed to feel this way and I like it! At 235lbs the stock setup was downright bouncy and very divey. Now the nose dives much less when braking and turning.

The downside is that I almost wiped pulling into the driveway because I'm so used to forks compressing so much even when I'm going really slowly. But I didn't...just felt and probably looked a bit awkward.

Rode around some to get used to it. I'm a happy camper right now.

[RACERX]

If you dont put the emulators in but you change the springs and oil, is there still a major difference?

[PasCaTT]

I couldn't say as I haven't riden it that way, but I'm pretty sure a few other folks have and liked it a lot.

[tim-4par]

:D I weigh in at 195 lbs. The only things I have done is change my fork oil to 20 wt. and adjust my sag. The oil helps out alot with the dive plus it's cheap and easy to do. Now I can't wait to get those emulators and springs!!!!!:cool:

[Punkbrad]

jsut the 20 weight oil for bigger boys like ourselves will help out immensely... its abotu 6 to 8 bux a bottle, and you only need 2. it takes about 2 hours from what i understand.. we can have another fork party near the end of the month at my place if you guys are interested, and if there are enough people who want to do it... lemme know...

Pb.

[Setter32]

If you dont put the emulators in but you change the springs and oil, is there still a major difference?

Yes................even without the emulators...........it makes a big fat juicy luscious mother freakin difference................

........and that's with only a 10 wt oil............

.......I'm sure it would have been much more juicy and luscious with the 15 or 20 wt oil......................


:D

[buymenow00]

Rod, you only put 10w in your forks? I've got a few extra quarts of 15wt if you need 'em...

[Gmoney]

just replacing springs and oil makes a big difference. it really improves the feel of the bike. when your on the twisties.

[Setter32]

Rod, you only put 10w in your forks? I've got a few extra quarts of 15wt if you need 'em...

I'll take you up on that...........the next time we have a fork party at your place................ thanks..........


:D

[buymenow00]

Yes, IMO this is the biggest bang for the buck mod out there. Racetech is still giving a 25% discount - just mention SVRider.com - so springs are about $80 shipped. Then add $15 for 2 qts. of Bel Rey's finest and you are in for less than $100!! (I assume that you don't need to buy a grip o' new tools to do the work!).

This mod pays off every time you brake and every time you turn. It should be the FIRST mod that you do. Before the can, before the lowers, before the jets, before the Sportecs...the fork mod comes FIRST!!

[Stinky]

I did the 20wt oil thing awhile back and it really helped with the dive and was okay until I threw the .90 springs in. It was like night and day. The springs actually smoothed the ride out more. I figured I outdamped the stock springs with just the oil so any bump would jar the whole bike. Now the forks rebound right after the bump so the front tire just hugs the road. Now I know what everyone means when they say the front feels planted.

[NukleoN]

I don't know what to get! Should I just go to Racetech and check the settings based on my weight? Setter you weigh as much as I do, right? (150 lbs). What did you get ?

Do I need springs, just oil, or springs and oil?

[buymenow00]

Nuke, I weigh 155 and Racetech recommended .80 springs for me, which is exactly what I used. I think that's as low as the Racetech's go. Someone on the main board had said that the stock springs were like .70 or .75 - but I don't know if that's 100% true.

I would be surprised if yours was any different than mine. You can just go there and find the "spring rate search" link and get their recs for you...

Springs and oil, springs and oil...I think you should do both.

Don't forget the 25% discount at Racetech!!

[NukleoN]

What weight oil should I go with? Yay..maybe I will get some. I need to pay someone to install them though. :(

[mistermiata13]

I think I need to do my springs and oil soon, since the bike dives everytime I touch the brakes. I'm about 185-190lbs., so would I need 15wt or 20wt oil?

Aaron

[tim-4par]

:cool: Just go to racetech.com find the link for spring rate search and type in your specs (weight, style of riding, etc.) The program they have will tell you everything you need to get the bestsuspension for your bike without spending a grip on new forks. It even tells you how many turns to take make on your preload adjusters and your sag.:D

[bwarbiany]

Just remember, you're going to run into a little problem in the twisties (at least I did)...

I'm used to applying the brakes based on the feeling of the brake dive...

Now it doesn't dive...

I'm slowing down *WAY* too much for corners because I'm braking harder to get the same dive!

Brad

[Britt]

Hey guys, I weigh about 118. Do you think that the oil wt and springs would make my bike feel any different? Or are you changing it because of the effect of your weight on the bike?

[bwarbiany]

Britt,
You don't need springs... Although you'd probably benefit from some 15wt oil... And maybe emulators. You don't have a problem with the spring rate, but you probably still have underdamped forks. Heavier oil (the stuff in there stock is closer to 5wt) will help the damping, and emulators will give you more control over how the damping is affected over different types of bumps...

Brad

[Britt]

Thanks for the info Brad

[Setter32]

You don't need springs

I don't know about that......................maybe...........

I would recommend that you (Britt........or anyone else interested in new springs.......and even if you only weigh 80 lbs) ride somebody-ies...bike (with the racetech springs.......or progressive) then decide wether you need new springs or not.................

........and I would recommend that you ride it in the canyons as well as in stop and go traffic..........

.........personal oppinion..................the stock springs are safety hazards.....................I hate them with the same intensity as my hatred of the Mez4s..................anyone would benefit from the racetech or progressive springs.........

....I think the diff will be like night and day for you.................

.........

.........but then again..........damn it.................I'm talkin out of my ass..............


:D

[bwarbiany]

Well, the proper spring rate you need is entirely based on weight. Racetech, I believe, for about 150 lb riders recommend a .75 or .80 spring... For a 120 lb rider, they'd probably be recommending in the 0.70 range, which is basically equal to the stock spring... That's why I said it...

Britt, go to www.racetech.com and click on "Spring Rate Search"... After inputting everything, see how far off the stock .706 springs they want you to put in... If it's close (i.e. they recommend about .73 or less), there's no need to put in new springs...

Like I said, I may be wrong on what they recommend, but if you get on my bike (and you're welcome to anytime you'd like to try it), I think you'd find that it's so incredibly stiff that it'll almost be unrideable. But, considering I've got .90 rate springs in there, that would make a lot of sense... I think at your weight the recommended spring will be very close to the stock spring, which (I think) in the SV fork is a straight rate spring, which is usually preferred...

Brad

[Viniteio-181]

Originally posted by bwarbiany
Well, the proper spring rate you need is entirely based on weight. Racetech, I believe, for about 150 lb riders recommend a .75 or .80 spring... For a 120 lb rider, they'd probably be recommending in the 0.70 range, which is basically equal to the stock spring... That's why I said it...Brad

I agree. I'm between 162-167 (depends on those tasty $6 burgers @ Carl's), and RT recommended for me to have a .78 spring w/20w - so I got the .80s. I haven't put them in yet, but I'm installing them really soon. They look so pretty..and they gave me stickers too. =P~ Anyway, from all the people that I've asked, (particularly Mike), they give me the impression that it's the best thing since sliced. I really wanted a pipe first, but that'll be next. I know that once the front improves, the back will need work. Hopefully RT will have developed a shock so I...we...can buy it from them rather than having to pay retail for the Ohlins system. I'll get back to you once I get mine in. TTYS.

[smolvar]

Just put in the Racetech .90s and some 20wt in the forks. To second everyones comments here, it feels like a new bike! Front end is much more planted, over the bumps feels smoother and since I get so much less dive from the front end, I had to be carefull with the brakes.

This is the way the bike should have shipped!

[NukleoN]

Ok I ordered the .80 Racetech springs but I did this LONG after reading this thread...I forgot the 25% discount!!! ARG.

I am trying to see if they will still give me a discount anyway.

So anyhoo, how hard are these springs to install? Do you simply remove the fork caps, replace the oil and springs and go? Did you guys have to suspend your bikes or put them on stands? I mean, you don't want the forks compressed when you open the fork caps right?

Can someone help me get up the nerve to tackle this job heh. :) I have 30 wt. oil and stock springs which is retarded...the mechanic who changed my fork oil didn't say anything about springs, and didn't mention anything about how the oil would work with the stock spring, let alone the fact that 30 wt. is too damn heavy for my weight.

I guess if you want a job done right you gotta do it yourself..so someone help me out here. ;) Mike? Paul? I already downloaded and printed the Chassis section of the shop manual..

[Rudeboy]

Just the springs should be pretty easy... yes you are going to have to figure out a way to get teh front end off the ground though.

The only place where i had a little trouble was threading the fork cap again... I almost stripped it :eek:

So be really careful with that to get it right the first time. You have to put a lot of pressure on the spring to compress it into place - that's why it is a little hard.

The whole job could definitely be done in a couple hours even if you are going pretty slow.

[SVelocity]

nukleon,

I would be happy to help...

I would also suggest if you are going to strip your front end down you might as well put on the emulators too.

Chris

[Tillers_Rule]

I just redid my fork oil since my seals were leaking, I was thinking about going with the emulators and springs in a bit.

My buddy did the whole conversion on his RC51 and LOVES the set up. Then, money bags goes out and buys some Ohlins R&T forks:confused:

[NukleoN]

Thanks guys...I really appreciate the advice..it's helping me visualize the process. I guess I don't want to be caught with something I cannot put back together...like when I first tried the doing an oil change myself, I found it easier when I was actually doing it, but only after I had the right tools! (Read, Suzuki oil filter wrench heh).

I just bought a really nice rear stand (Pit Bull) and would have bought the front stand but they didn't have any pins for the steering stem (which is supposed to come with it), so I have to look elsewhere.

I also have a fork oil measuring tool, which is a big plastic syringe with plastic tubing ending in a small metal rigid tool with markings on it.

Got the 20 wt. oil and I probably need a funnel as well.

Anything else I should know before I start? SVelocity are you in the bay area by chance? Heh. If you guys want to help walk me through it online that would rock the hizzouse. If I had a digicam I'd take pics along the way.

If I pay the Mechanic to do it, it's a minimum of $75 for an hour plus other costs, so I may as well do it myself. Oh yeah I gotta wait for the Racetech springs to get here too. :)

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by NukleoN
So anyhoo, how hard are these springs to install? Do you simply remove the fork caps, replace the oil and springs and go? Did you guys have to suspend your bikes or put them on stands? I mean, you don't want the forks compressed when you open the fork caps right?

Nuke,
Very simple:

1) Suspend the bike from the garage ceiling, or get a front stand that goes under the steering stem to get the front wheel completely off the ground.

2) Remove front wheel, brakes, fender, etc.

3) Loosen fork cap, but don't remove it (easy to do with the forks on the bike, hard to do after you take them off)

4) Loosen clip-ons and fork retention bolts (one on the triple tree, two on lower fork brace). When you loosen the last bolt, be careful not to let the forks just drop out.

5) Remove fork caps completely, pull out spacers/springs/washers, and drain oil into a bucket (need to compress and extend forks to get all the old oil out). You might end up dropping a washer or something into the bucket, so keep an eye on in what order things come out.

6) Compress forks, stand them upright, and add oil until it's 130 mm from the top of the (compressed) fork tube.

7) Replace springs, washers, etc in same order.
7a) For correct preload, set the fork cap to it's middle setting (if you have a 2002), replace everything, measure the sag, remove everything, and cut a spacer.
7b) If you're too lazy for 7a, cut a spacer so that the spacer is 25 mm longer than the length of the fork (minus fork cap and washer dimension), replace spacer/washer etc.

8) Hand-tighten fork cap.

9) Replace forks by same method as removed. Set fork so top of fork leg is flush with top of triple tree (same as set by factory).

10) Tighten fork cap! Again, this is easiest with the forks on the bike, which is why it's this late in the process.

11) Replace brakes, wheel, fender, etc. Pay VERY SPECIAL attention to the speedo sensor. If you don't line it up properly, you're going to spend $25 on a new sensor, and have to take it apart again when it breaks.

12) Make sure everything is set for correct torque, and enjoy! :D

Hope this helps. The hardest thing to figure out is sag (7a/7b). It's tough to explain the way to do this via email, so if you want to let me know when you do this, I can try to be available via phone to help you out...

Last, good luck!!!

[NukleoN]

Hey Brad!

Thanks for this very detailed rundown. Appreciate it! The people at Racetech are saying I don't need a torque wrench, so maybe I don't need to buy one just yet? (I think I should have one anyway).

Thanks for the warning about the speedo and all that....I am definitely going to pick up a PitBull front stem stand soon...and I've recently discovered that I cannot stand up the front of the bike without first putting the back up! Didn't know that before and I'd hate to think what would have happened had I not accidentally discovered it. ;)

Steps 7a and 7b confuse me coz I don't know how to measure sag or why I need to measure it. Why do I need the space? What is it cut from and why do I need it? I was just gonna install the new spring and oil but I'll do the spacer and sag step if it's recommended.

Thanks a lot for your help!! :D

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by NukleoN
Thanks for this very detailed rundown. Appreciate it! The people at Racetech are saying I don't need a torque wrench, so maybe I don't need to buy one just yet? (I think I should have one anyway).

Buy a torque wrench... You can get one for about $20, plus some new sockets if you need them. It comes in handy...

And I've recently discovered that I cannot stand up the front of the bike without first putting the back up! Didn't know that before and I'd hate to think what would have happened had I not accidentally discovered it. ;)

Yes you can... When I did it, I used truck tie-downs to suspend the bike from roof joists in the garage... It all depends how you suspend it... I made sure to space them far enough apart that it was actually quite stable... Or, you can suspend the front with one tie-down, and the rear with another... This of course assumes you have a garage, and it has exposed joists, but you can also do bicycle hooks into the joists, as long as you have a studfinder... Definitely cheaper than a rear stand, but also not anywhere near as easy....

Steps 7a and 7b confuse me coz I don't know how to measure sag or why I need to measure it. Why do I need the space? What is it cut from and why do I need it? I was just gonna install the new spring and oil but I'll do the spacer and sag step if it's recommended.

Basically, when you're off the bike, the front end will be at one height. When you then get on the bike, the front end will compress slightly. The amount that it compresses is the sag. Too much or too little sag is not good. You should typically have about 25-35 mm of sag on the front end (I think)... This is something that is much easier to measure if you have a second person helping you.

What the spacer does is set the amount of sag you've got, basically by adjusting the amount of preload you put onto the spring.

A spring is a linear force:
F = k * x, where k is the spring constant, and x is the amount of travel from free (uncompressed) length.

You set the preload on the spring, which is the amount of travel that you automatically reduce the spring to get it partially compressed. This is accomplished by the spacer, between the top of the spring and the bottom of the fork cap (or preload adjuster on an '02). The taller the spacer, the more preload you have on the spring, and the shorter the spacer, the less preload on the spring. This preload will determine how much force the spring is giving when the bike is at rest.

The stiffer the spring is, the more force it takes to get it to go through travel. The softer the spring is, the less force it takes. You want a certain amount of suspension travel available, and that determines the spring rate you use. Which is why you need a stiffer spring for harder riding (or more weight), as the forces you encounter will be greater on heavy braking, or with a heavier rider.

What the spacer does is helps you to set the amount the spring is compressed when you're on the bike to be at the right point in the suspension travel. If your spacer is really long, the spring is producing more force (because x in the above equation is bigger), and the fork will be closer to the top of it's travel when you're not moving. Which means the fork might "top out", reaching it's maximum mechanical length. Not good when you're riding, because then it cannot adjust to the road. If the spacer is too short, the spring is not producing as much force, and the fork will be closer to the bottom of its travel when you're not moving. This makes it easier for the fork to bottom out under heavy braking, and when the fork bottoms out, it cannot adjust to the road, which is bad when you're riding.

So you adjust the spacer so that the fork is in the optimum point (probably not the middle, but I'm not sure what the optimum point is) when you're on the bike, not moving. This gives the fork the greatest amount of compression or expansion when your riding, making it less likely to top out or bottom out.

To sum up, both the spring rate and the preload are essential to set correctly. The spring rate is determined purely by rider weight and riding style. For heavier or faster riders, you will need a stiffer spring to prevent bottoming the suspension. But after you get the right spring, you need to set the spacer to determine optimum range of motion of the spring, which millions of miles by riders and racers has determined to be about 25-35 mm of sag.

[NukleoN]

Awesome rundown Brad! Too bad you don't live in the Bay area still! :) Great I think I will do this soon, but since I share a garage and all that (apartments) I will just have to get a front stem stand for my bike. Then, I'll be ready to change the fork oil and drop the new springs in there. I'll do the sag check as well...I guess I will have to get some kind of zip-tie to put around the fork tube so I can measure sag.

Thanks again. :D

[twf]

bwarbiany wrote;
Basically, when you're off the bike, the front end will be at one height. When you then get on the bike, the front end will compress slightly. The amount that it compresses is the sag. Too much or too little sag is not good. You should typically have about 25-35 mm of sag on the front end (I think)...snip
So you adjust the spacer so that the fork is in the optimum point (probably not the middle, but I'm not sure what the optimum point is) when you're on the bike, not moving. This gives the fork the greatest amount of compression or expansion when your riding, making it less likely to top out or bottom out...snip


you should have between 30-35mm.you measure from fully extended to where it compresses with you on bike.dont forget part of sag that bike weight uses.

you should cut spacers so you have about 15mm preload on spring once cap is screwed in.preload adjuster(if any)all the way out.

[NukleoN]

Thanks TWF!

Ok, so I understand the sag measurement (between 25-35mm) is the distance between unloaded fork compression and the 'sag' after I get on the bike.

So am I correct in thinking I would simply have to adjust the sag to be 25-35mm when I am on the bike? I am assuming that if it is less than this, I need more preload, if too much, I need less preload.

Is that correct?

[twf]

unloaded is when there is nothing compressing forks.not even bike,wheel of the ground.you measure from there.
if number is more than 35 you need more preload.
if number is less than 30 you need less preload.

[NukleoN]

Heh Thanks TWF

[Nanduccio]

Scott and I have done the recommended Racetech springs and 20 wt oil in our bikes, and the difference is quite amazing! The bike is much more planted, and just solid feeling. Much better front end than the stock set-up, and well worth the $100 bucks or so.

HOWEVER, both of us are discovering new problems with the rear of the bike when riding more at the "limit". The bike feels amazing all the way up to the limit, but when pushing at our "limit", it gets quite squirrely.
Scott is breaking his rear 020 loose quite a bit now, and mine is certainly making me take notice. (He's bigger than me though. He's a hoss.:D )

It seems to me that the stock rear shock is really being outclassed now by the front end!
Before, the entire bike was soft, with more of an overall balance. Now, the stock rear is getting all hoppity and loose, while the front is still completely planted. I think there's nothing left for us to do but upgrade the shock at this point...

Anyone have similar experiences when they upgraded their fronts, yet kept the stock shock?

[Stinky]

I just got my emulators yesterday and "attempted" to install them. Taking out the damping rods are a bitch! I like how they say to "just use a broom stick to keep the rod from spinning". That muthaeffa took me two hours to bust out. So I thought...well it worked. So I started on the second fork. I gave up after a couple hours. That thing just kept spinning. I see in the manual there's a special tool to use. Maybe I'll try to find it. Anyways, I'm done for the day. Too pissed off and tired to keep trying. Maybe overnight it'll loosen up a little. Time to get drunk.

[twf]

did you try with forks fully assembled?tension of spring helps keep rod from rotating.

[Burst]

Stinky,
also if you have a drill that has an adjustable torque setting(dewalt and mikita etc) Set the torque really low and put the allen bit in the drill. With the torque setting low it will act almost like an impact wrench. works pretty well. or you could just bring them up to my place and make use of my torque wrench.

Naduccio, the rear shock does suck, but so does the 020.... That tire will slide no matter what shock you run. It is not exactly a sticky tire. I had an 020 on my bike when I was not riding very hard at all and it let go on me many times. Set the sag on the rear end and get some decent rubber on there and see what you think.

I am now running an Ohlins shock and the M1's STILL let go on me... I am hoping it is because they are thoroughly cooked and a new set will solve the problem. I'd hate to have to go to a softer tire. The commute will kill it in a week.

[Stinky]

Tried it with the spring and everything inside. Still slipped. I'll try the drill thing tomorrow. Gonna go to Home Depot to get an allen bit. I don't think I have one laying around. I got most of the air tools so I'll try em out.
Thanks for the advice dudes...

[Burst]

oh then use an impact wrench... that will do it in a heartbeat. just get an allen bit that fits a 3/8 drive wratchet and a 1/2 to 3/8 converter(if the impact wrench is 1/2 that is...)

You'll have it apart in no time.

[NukleoN]

If anyone is interested, I have a brand new set of Racetech .80 springs for sale. You can get them (with the SV Rider discount) for 97.90 but I'll let them go for $90 and cover shipping. Any takers? If not I'll just trade them in for some emulators.

Oh yeah, stock springs and 15w oil seems to be an ideal setup for me. :)

[Ric]

Traxxion claims that Racetech leaves out some sort of important step in the installation of an emulator. Anyone know the full scoop on this ???

How much is a Racetech emulator ?

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by Stinky
Tried it with the spring and everything inside. Still slipped. I'll try the drill thing tomorrow. Gonna go to Home Depot to get an allen bit. I don't think I have one laying around. I got most of the air tools so I'll try em out.
Thanks for the advice dudes...

I needed two people when I did this... With it fully assembled, have someone put all their weight on it (with it upside down) to compress the spring/etc and add tension. Then while they're doing that, you try to break it loose (we just used a T-handle). That was enough to break the PITA ones loose, but you can't do it alone...

[Stinky]

Originally posted by Ric
Traxxion claims that Racetech leaves out some sort of important step in the installation of an emulator. Anyone know the full scoop on this ???

How much is a Racetech emulator ?

I did some reading on this and people were saying before that you had to braze the rebound hold shut and redrill a different size one. Later this step was removed from the instructions and people were saying this was because it was preventing people from purchasing the emulators from RaceTech. Traxxion I believe had different instructions, but people said it was because they had a different emulator.

More Traxxion/Racetech discussion in this thread, click here (http://www.socalsvriders.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1782)

I've read that RaceTech redesigned their emulators so that you don't need to redo the rebound hole. That's why it's not in the instructions anymore.

The emulator's came out to like $120 or something with the svrider discount. Seems kinda steep for two little pieces.

[Stinky]

Holy crap...
Well I ended up chopping off part of my allen wrench instead of getting a bit. After how many tries going back and forth with the impact wrench and air socket, both with the fork assembled and disassembled, it finally broke free with the air socket and broom stick inserted.
Damn, now 'hopefully' it should be downhill from here.
(Fingers crossed)

[SV650canuk]

I've been reading raves about changing fork springs and adding emulators.

Why, after twenty years, don't bike manufacturers use progressively wound springs? why are japanese bikes always underdamped and undersprung?

What's an emulator?

[weegaz22]

why are japanese bikes always underdamped and undersprung?

ok look at your average japanese guy/rider, around 5' 6" weighs about 150-160 pounds, then your big caucasion(spelling???) fat ass weighing in at 265 pounds and at 6' 1" comes and tries to ride a bike thats designed for a little japanese guy, of course the springs and shocks are gonna be overwhelmed arent they?

[smolvar]

Originally posted by weegaz22
ok look at your average japanese guy/rider, around 5' 6" weighs about 150-160 pounds, then your big caucasion(spelling???) fat ass weighing in at 265 pounds and at 6' 1" comes and tries to ride a bike thats designed for a little japanese guy, of course the springs and shocks are gonna be overwhelmed arent they?

I agree with your analysis, but why then dont we get the "fatass" springs and fork oil placed in certain bikes designated as the USA export models.

[weegaz22]

well if suzuki started to tailor make everyones bike to suit the sv wouldnt be a budget bike would it? + riding to the point of over-whelming the suspension isnt supposed to be safe and suzuki would never condone that now would they?;)

[Troy]

Originally posted by smolvar
I agree with your analysis, but why then dont we get the "fatass" springs and fork oil placed in certain bikes designated as the USA export models.

Because they're (stock springs) meant to satisfy the widest variety of rider body sizes and riding styles. Do you really think Suzuki builds the SV with the sole intention of making it a world-class handling bike? It's all about the $$'s.

[smolvar]

Originally posted by weegaz22
well if suzuki started to tailor make everyones bike to suit the sv wouldnt be a budget bike would it? + riding to the point of over-whelming the suspension isnt supposed to be safe and suzuki would never condone that now would they?;)

Well thats true, I dont disagree with you.
The issue is thats its not a tailor made bike when the entire USA population weighs on average 20% more than their japanese counterparts. This becomes an "export" issue much like the left hand drive/right hand drive conversion and the kilometers/mph conversion


Also the so called "world class" bikes have soft springs that dont support the median American male.

I guess I should quit bitching, b/c I'm sure since they are domestic, hardleys have springs for fatasses and I dont want one of them

[weegaz22]

well there are 3 options for all the fat asses out there
1. lose some weight (it wont cost anything :D )
2. spend more cash on the suspension
3. buy a better bike in the first place and u wont need to complain about the suspension on a budget bike

im lucky as i weigh about the same as a japanese rider so i dont need to worry about the suspension :D

[smolvar]

Originally posted by weegaz22
well there are 3 options for all the fat asses out there
1. lose some weight (it wont cost anything :D )
2. spend more cash on the suspension
3. buy a better bike in the first place and u wont need to complain about the suspension on a budget bike

im lucky as i weigh about the same as a japanese rider so i dont need to worry about the suspension :D

#1. I'm currently doing that....-14lbs as of today.

#2 I did that....90 springs and 20wt oil

#3 I dont really want to do that, but someday I may have to


Dont get me wrong i love my SV and I'm very happy now that my forks have been updated, but honestly most people arent built like a japanese male.

[weegaz22]

its also about compromise say the population of the usa has 15-20% of ppl my weight if they made harder springs then it could be too harsh a ride for my weight category thus putting ppl off as it would jump all over the road and waggle its head as the spring rate is too hard, so suzuki keep the soft springs, my suggestion would be put heavier fork oil in your bike and 10-15 mm washers under the fork caps and this will help even things out, if this is still not enough then go for the racetech valves and this will make your front feel a LOT better, i have only heard good things about fork emulators so this maybe is what you need to do

what weight are u just out of interest?

[bwarbiany]

My problem is that I couldn't lose enough weight to reach the operating range of the stock suspension... Unless I cut off a leg (or two)... Even if I get down to an ideal weight for me (225-230 lbs), it still would require me to pretty much change the suspension no matter what I ride...

But now I've got the .90 springs, emulators, 20 wt oil, GSXR shock with 700 lb/in spring, revalved...

So I'm happy with the SV :D

At least for sport riding... I REALLY want an Aprilia Futura, or an FJR1300, or maybe even a goldwing for touring :D

[smolvar]

Originally posted by weegaz22
my suggestion would be put heavier fork oil in your bike and 10-15 mm washers under the fork caps and this will help even things out, if this is still not enough then go for the racetech valves and this will make your front feel a LOT better, i have only heard good things about fork emulators so this maybe is what you need to do

what weight are u just out of interest?

I did the racetech .90 springs and 20wt oil in the forks plus some longer spacers. This helps my sitaution and makes things feel lots better.

I'm just complaining on principal, not on my experience necessarily.

BTW was 250lbs now 235 and heading for a 210 goal. This will be the target weight for my 6'2" height, which will mean I'm no longer a "fatass" but still much bigger than your average Japanese male.

[Nanduccio]

Originally posted by weegaz22
its also about compromise say the population of the usa has 15-20% of ppl my weight if they made harder springs then it could be too harsh a ride for my weight category thus putting ppl off as it would jump all over the road and waggle its head as the spring rate is too hard, so suzuki keep the soft springs, my suggestion would be put heavier fork oil in your bike and 10-15 mm washers under the fork caps and this will help even things out, if this is still not enough then go for the racetech valves and this will make your front feel a LOT better, i have only heard good things about fork emulators so this maybe is what you need to do

what weight are u just out of interest?

I have to disagree with your reasoning about the Suzuki suspension. Virtually everyone here in the US (who is your average adult male) ends up doing springs on their SV, if they're serious about getting the most out of the SV. So, it seems like Suzuki should ship them with stiffer springs. Both Brad and Scott are pretty big boys and the stock springs are pretty useless for them. I'm not exactly huge, but at 190 lbs, I still handily outclassed the stock SV springs.

Being somewhat familiar with Scottish culture and traditional Scottish Games such as "Tossing the Caber", I decided to put things in a more "Scottish friendly" lingo to ease your understanding...

A basic Internet query tells me that a "typical" caber weighs in between 125- 150 lbs. Being "American fat asses", Scott, Brad, and I weigh more than a traditional caber. Hence, we are too heavy for the stock SV springs. Since you like the stock SV springs, I'm assuming you weigh approximately what your "typical" caber weighs.

Thus, if you were ever to make it to one of our Gatherings or rides here in SoCal, "American fat-asses" Scott, Brad, and I could compete "tossing" you around for distance, in lieu of a true "caber".

I hope this helps. :D

[weegaz22]

Thus, if you were ever to make it to one of our Gatherings or rides here in SoCal, "American fat-asses" Scott, Brad, and I could compete "tossing" you around for distance, in lieu of a true "caber".

yes maybe true but you would need to catch me first :D and weighing 50 or so pounds less than all you "fat asses" probably means me and the bike will be a little quicker than most, seeing as all you "average american males" will be bogging the bike down with excess weight;)

[SV650canuk]

Well...money is the answer apparently. But motorcycles that are considered "budget bikes" still cost about 60% the price of "budget" autos-that have stainless exhausts and fuel injection, CD players, etc.etc. Motorcycles are a very high-profit industry, it's motorcycle magazines that have coined terms like "budget" bikes to apologize for the cost of these vehicles. Some BMW bikes now exceed the cost of some BMW cars.

Bikes are made for each country's safety specs anyway, California gets emission equipment that is unique to the state -this is much more expensive and involved then swapping heavier oil and progressively wound springs. As for the fat-ass issue-do not japanese riders carry passengers? Some bikes are downright suspensionless with two light-ass riders on.

Bike manufacturers don't do it because the public does not demand it-this is why we are only recently getting fuel injection, but still have these steel insta-rust exhausts.

[weegaz22]

Bike manufacturers don't do it because the public does not demand it-this is why we are only recently getting fuel injection, but still have these steel insta-rust exhausts

the only reason that bikes are coming in with fuel injection is because the eec standards are getting tighter on emissions and injection is easier to tune than carbs for this purpose

as for the exhausts i dont know about you but my bike is an 01 and it has stainless steel headers, link pipes and can and is still as shiny as the day it rolled out the factory, maybe cos u live in the states they hit u with mild steel cos it rains less there

and the reason bikes are about 60% of the price of a budget car is because they have the ability to blow away cars this side of $60,000 from the traffic lights, and are seen as a plaything rather than a commodity

[SV650canuk]

My bike is 01-Canadian, but I'm not certain about the exhaust headers -are they stainless?? What about the muffler? they have that yellow hue. I've looked everywhere to find out.
I know the header clamps have already rusted.

Bikes blowing away cars is not about expensive technology, it's about low power/weight ratio inherent to motorcycles. A Vespa can out-drag a Beemer. I dunno, been riding for about 20 years with 6 different bikes, they tend to be all pretty much the same for commuting, although I do like the SV's low weight and mid-range torque. I still find it irritating to fiddle with the choke. They are still too easy to steal, and I swear they spend CDN$4.56 on those wimpy horns -the stock one sounds like a flatulant goat.

[weegaz22]

yes but look at bike engine tecnology over the years how many cars do you know that can pack (gsx-r1000 for instance) 155bhp into a 1000cc of engine? without the use of turbos or superchargers?, if engine build cost was the same as cars we would have an sv650 with around 30-35 bhp:eek: yes we would still blow away cars due to the weight difference but like i said bikes are classed as a plaything and not a commodity

[SV650canuk]

Originally posted by weegaz22
but like i said bikes are classed as a plaything and not a commodity

Even in Europe? I know several people in London that put 20,000kms/year on their bikes as primary transport, ...despatch riders...etc. my '01 has 38,000 kms.

North americans tend to define the "ride", sunday morning for a few hours ride to a cafe somewhere, otherwise, ride the big shiny box with cupholders all week.

Cars don't get 155hp from 1000cc, but they have more torque needs, air regs, catalysts, and are expected to last 100,000 miles.

[weegaz22]

lets face it if u need somthing to solely commute in you not going to buy an svs(unless u were wanting a bike for the weekends), you would buy a kawasaki er-5 or a honda cb500 as when you drop these there wont be much in the way of damage as there is no plastic to break + as you say they will last longer as suzuki's build quality is crap, a lot of ppl here are starting to go down the 50cc scooter route as you dont need a licence to ride them, and there are millions of scooters in holland(used to work there) as well as all over europe that ppl use to commute every day the only reason i can think why they would buy a bike is if they lived far away

[SV650canuk]

Originally posted by weegaz22
+ as you say they will last longer as suzuki's build quality is crap,

38,000km -no problems so far. I sold my Katana 600 with 56,000kms, no problems, original clutch.

[weegaz22]

sorry getting mixed up with another thread elsewhere

[Tillers_Rule]

Hmmmmmm......, the only real difference I notice on my TL is theres a squeak in my left fork leg:confused:

[GsxrGregor]

I'm getting .80kg racetech springs installed next week with 20wt fork oil. I can't wait to feel the difference! :D

[zzzwillzzz]

Originally posted by weegaz22
lets face it if u need somthing to solely commute in you not going to buy an svs(unless u were wanting a bike for the weekends), you would buy a kawasaki er-5 or a honda cb500

i don't know about canada, but in the u.s. we don't get either of those bikes

[GsxrGregor]

I had my RaceTech springs installed today with 15wt oil... the front end is SO much better!:D No more nasty dive when I hit the brakes, and it feels a lot more planted in the turns. A very good investment! :D

[dillweed]

Originally posted by Stinky
Before this I only had 20wt oil to cure the dive. Now I realize how bad my forks were. Bumps were jarring to the bike and hitting undulations leaned over really upset the front. Now I know that my forks were seriously overdamped and the springs couldn't rebound fast enough. Now when I hit bumps, the tire just stays planted and rides smoothly over it. It also feels very solid in the turns now and the ride is actually smoother.
I think most of the improvement is people like yourself who originally had thicker oil, and THEN installed the emulators. Whereas if you install thicker oil AND emulators at the same time, you will not see an improvment in ride. At least I didn't. I only experienced an improvement in handling and braking, not ride.

[stough]

Improvement in handling and braking, but not ride!? That is ride!

Ok, I know what you mean. When my wife rode it after the fork job, she complained that the ride was harsher since my .8 springs, 20 wt oil, and emulators.

However, on the Crest, above Wilson where the road is bumpier, at 60 mph, hauled over in a corner, the "ride" is much better! I did the Racetech rebuild to improve canyon carving confidence, not to give a plush ride. I found the stock setup plush, just un-confidence-inspiring...

Later,
Tim.

[bwarbiany]

Originally posted by stough
However, on the Crest, above Wilson where the road is bumpier, at 60 mph, hauled over in a corner, the "ride" is much better! I did the Racetech rebuild to improve canyon carving confidence, not to give a plush ride. I found the stock setup plush, just un-confidence-inspiring...

My setup (both front and rear) is pretty stiff for street riding. On the freeway, it can actually be almost painful at times... But heading up GMR, or at the track, the bike is just amazing...

At Butonwillow it just felt like everything the bike was doing was exactly what a bike is supposed to do. Even in turn 4, which has a couple of decent size bumps right in the apex area, the bike wiggled a little, but no loss of traction or sliding off line...

But you're right Tim, it just depends on how you define "ride"... I like the ride now :D

[chrdog]

just a quick question for those who have stiffer springs.

i was installing my racetech ones and they are alot shorter than the stock ones. i could cut a longer spacer, but is that how short they are supposed to be (the springs)?

[chrdog]

heres a pic

[TIFOSO]

That what mine looked like. I had to cut longer spacers.

[petec999]

Ditto, you have to cut longer spacers.
Follow the directions to make sure the sag is within bounds.

[chrdog]

heres the situation:

i changed out my stock springs with racetech .90 springs and 15wt oil.

everything is put back together, and when i sat on the bike, pushed on the forks and heard a slight sqeak? it doesnt stick, it just squeaks. and not alot, but seeing as this is the first time ive opened the forks up, im wary of new sounds and such.

is it normal?:confused:

[Tillers_Rule]

My forks do the same thing, and they only do it after I had Race Tech do my forks

i wouldnt worry about it, I dont

[Bear]

So if I want to improve the performance for limited track use, but still have some plushness for the rough roads out here, should I do the springs, oil, and emulators? Or maybe just a combination like springs, and emulators, but stick with 10 wt oil? I'm 6'1" and about a buck seventy five.

[Chicago_SV]

Do they make a BIG difference?

If so in what way(less harsh ride, better compression dampening...etc....)

I have replaced the springs for my weight and have gone to 20wt fork Oil


Anyone done this and then put emulators in?

Thanks

Michael

[bling_thing]

I expected a HARSHER ride. The exact opposite happened. It feels SMOOTHER in every condition. The bike feels amazingly PLANTED...no scittery, jumpy, jerky fork bottoming out clatter anymore. The difference is truly night and day.

You will feel an immediate OBVIOUS difference, and not resent one penny of what it cost!

[Kurt'sSV]

Yeah I now have the race tech front end on my bike (with Ohlins shock). It is set up for a person about 10lbs. heavier than I am, but they worked great during the 1 race weekend I've ridden on them so far. Willow Springs has some big bumps in it, but I forgot about that the last time I was out there because I wasn't feeling them.

[tcody360]

I am installing Race Tech emulators and .80 kg/mm springs right now, I am trying to get the dampening rod out. the bottom bolt is loosened off but the inside is just spinning. I've tried sticking a broom handle down there to hold it so I can the the bolt out but thats not working... Any other suggestions???

I also installed an Ohlins 46HRCL rear shock today.... WOW, I can notice the difference just sitting on the bike. with the old shock, you could push it down and it would stay there if you keep weight on it, the Ohlins will go down and kinda pop part way back up even with weight on it... I can wait to get back out on the track.

[ZX-Tex]

Originally posted by tcody360
I am installing Race Tech emulators and .80 kg/mm springs right now, I am trying to get the dampening rod out. the bottom bolt is loosened off but the inside is just spinning. I've tried sticking a broom handle down there to hold it so I can the the bolt out but thats not working... Any other suggestions???


I had the same problem. I used an impact wrench to loosen it and it came right out. It is loctited in place so unless you use an impact wrench or have a tool to hold the damper rod it will probably just spin. Don't use the impact wrench to put it back in though!:eek:

I made a tool to reach the damper rod bolt by chopping the bent end off an allen wrench and sticking it into a metric socket.

[tcody360]

hey, I ended up doing the same thing with the impact...

another question.... this is my race bike, Ohlins rear shock, race tech front fork internals and .80 springs. I run quick lap times, within 3 sec of fastest Pro's on long track. The bike now weighs around 350lbs with gas, and I am only 120 lbs. The track I'd like to be most set-up for is VERY bumpy. (some bumps both tires come off ground, nice patching job on the track...) Should I go with 20w fork oil or 15w? or just try it out and see how it goes... it says 20 w in the race tech stuff, but due to the weight of the bike etc I went with 15 w oil. Anyone try this out? thanks,

[ZX-Tex]

Others here may know more, but I'll throw in my two cents. Since you are pretty light at 120 lbs (60 lbs less than me, I use 20W) then you might try a lower weight oil and adjust for less damping on the shock as well, especially since you are on a bumpy track. Plus you are running lower weight springs. Heavier springs = more damping and vice versa. If you are racing in hot weather then the shocks will run hotter and thus you might get the same effect anyway, not sure though. Make sure you have the sag set correctly front and rear since that is the most important thing.

However, best bet might be to check the Race Tech site or give them a call and see what they think. And, ultimately like you say the best thing to do is try it and see how it works for you.

Geez... I sounds like a politician. Did I really tell you anything?:D

[tcody360]

hey, thanks ZX. I put in 15w oil and have the emulators on 3 turns preload. Once I get out on the track then I can get everything dialed in. The other track I race at is only 3 years old and quite smooth, so a bit firmer suspension on that one will be nice. At least the rear shock is easy to adjust.... :) 9 more days on my insurance and then its track only... so hopefully I can get a bit of a feel for the suspension in a few days on the street. I have to wait till mid- next week to get a part in. the one plastic ring on the dampening rod broke into pieces..... Race city track is very bumpy but they are supposed to be fixing some of the crappy patches.... we'll see I guess

[ridley]

so I needed to replace my fork seals and I figured that I would change my springs while I was in their. Ordered springs and seals. Racetech said spring are on backorder, but sent the seals anyway. I waited to do the work untill I had the springs, but could not wait any longer. It has been a month with out the SV. Springs still not here. So last night I dive in change the seals figuring it will be a while till I see my springs and guess what. They arived at 3:00pm today.

Aint that a bitch.

Now I am trying to think of a way to do this so I dont have to take the front of the bike apart (again). My plan was/is to do the following.

1. bike on front (pitbull triple tree stand) and rear stand.
2. take off preload caps
3. raise front wheel with my car jack to push up spacer and spring
4. remove OE spacers and Springs carefully (dont want to drop a washer).
5. since the oil level in the forks is variable (depending on who you talk to, SV manual says air space of 104mm while TWF says 120mm) and the angle of the forks would probably give me an accuracy of +/-2mm, I figured I would take many measurements and figure an average airspace (lowest and highest level of oil in fork). Add oil lost to compensate for what came out with the OE crap. Not to over fill and shoot for an air space of about 110mm.
6. install new spacers and springs and recap.

Think it will work?

[Kurt'sSV]

Once the front end us up in the air, just pop off the fork cap, take out the old spring, put the new spring in, put the cap back on and repeat for the other side.

[ridley]

One more thing I am too lazy to figure this out but how long do my new spacers need to be.

[Kurt'sSV]

Uh? The same length as the old ones? No wait, different weight springs. Uh shorter than the old ones. Doesn't race tech have something on their website tell you this, or doesn't it say in the paperwork the came with the springs?

[ridley]

raceTech says to measure the distance from the top of the fork tube to the top of the spring. then subtract the distance from the minimum preload setting (02 model, mine) and cut your spacer according to that length. Or I could remove OE spring and spacer and measure their total length (with washer between OE spring and spacer) and cut the new spacer so that it+new spring match the length of the old stuff.

Kurt does that sound good?

[tcody360]

hey, dont take apart the front end... just get a magnet tool, basically a small rod with a powerfull magnet on the end. works great! do you have emulators in yet? they would be highly recommended!! just drop em in and there ya go!

[sprintrider]

I do not see a lot about fork spring and valve upgrades here so I thought that I would share my experience. I hope that is is helpful to some of you.

After doing a track day using some one Else's bike, I realized the next time I got on my SV that the suspension, especially the front was needing some help. I have good mechanical aptitude but messing with spring rates and all that was still a bit scary.

I decided to give it a go and decided to use stuff from Traxxion Dynamics. The reason I went that way was that I could use there rod replacements. I thought that it would speed things up doing the change. I a also figured that if things just plane went bad I could just stuff the stock goodies back in. The rods cost $100 but I found them worth the doe.

I called and talked to the guys at Traxxion and they gave me a recommendation for the spring rate and some installation tips over the phone so I placed the order for springs, rods, race tech valves and oil. The order showed up in three business days and included the parts listed above along with spacers cut to length and a good set of instructions.

I read threw the instructions a couple of times that evening and the following afternoon, I went to work. The change over took about three hours start to finish including a run to the parts store for some thread locker. The job was basically a slam dunk.

With the rods and spacers that were sent I basically pored every thing out of the fork. Changed over the rod seal and top out spring, and put every thing back in. It was so nice.

Once the bike was together I gave the preload adjusters a couple of turns and I was off.

And the important thing, how did it ride. Well the change is not small. I was very surprised by how much more responsive the bike is. Gone was the big dive and frequent bottoming when I stop. And to my surprise the ride is better then before the switch. I was so worried that the stiffer springs would make the bike ride hard. This is not the case at all. The springs in combination with the Race Tech valves will give a firm yet plush ride. I initially had the valves set at 21/2 turns and even though the feed back was great it was just to hard of ride. So I pulled the valves and re set them to 2 turns and the ride is excellent. It took me about an hour to reset the valves. I may dial the valves up for a track day but for the kind of riding I do daily, I do not want the front end to be that firm.

I would not recommend just changing springs and oil with out doing the valves. My guess is that the springs would keep the front end from diving but you would get pounded to death. Some of the younger riders might be able to take that but my wrists are not up for that.

The Chang over costs a few dollars but it is almost like buying a new bike because it handles so much better and rides so much better. If you like your SV it is worth the time and money to do.

Mark

[Novadesigns]

Very nice write up, Mark. This is something I'm planning to do myself and its good to hear that it can be done fairly quickly and easily. I do have a few questions. What do you weigh and how did you suspend the front end of your bike to take the forks off?

Thanks!

[ridley]

In case any one is interested. I did my springs this last weekend and asked a few questions concerning the swap without taking the bike apart and spacer length (see above posts). Well poped off the caps and went to work everything went really smooth.

I noticed that with Racetechs recomendations measurements for spacer lengths I came to a total length of 500mm (Spring, washer, and spacer). This measurement is taking into consideration the standard 15mm minimum preload recomendation (2002 sv with adjustable preload caps, non adjustable 01 and older need 20mm) So if anyone else is looking to swap SPRINGS ONLY then cut your spacers to 160mm for a 2002sv. If your doing emulators your spacer length will be shorter that 160mm.

[sprintrider]

Hi Novadesigns

I way 195 and the spring rate that I was sent was .95. and is apparently just right because I need almost no preload adjustment to get the right sag.

To support the front end of the bike I uses an articulating ladder and a ratcheting strap threw the handle bar mounts. I took the bars loose to get them out of the way. It looked odd but worked great. using a rafter or truss in the garage would work the same way.

A couple of the guys have commented that you can make the change without removing the forks and that is true. I considered that but I wanted to wash out the fork legs and when it comes time to fill the leg with oil, getting the air out and oil level right, it would be a lot more difficult on the bike then on the work bench.

Mark

[supark]

I'm about to upgrade my fork springs - unfortunately Racetech is all out of the .80 springs that they recommend for street riding for my 180 pound frame.

I've been told that .80 will still be too soft though - is this true? I just want my bike to track better and get rid of the damn brake dive - I don't ride aggressively at all. My bike is pretty much a commuter vehicle, so I don't want to give up to much comfort on the road.

Thanks

[dillweed]

No, I don't think .80 will be too soft unless you go to the track. You said you don't ride agressively anyway.

The stock springs are like .70-.72

I haven't seen anyone your weight go above .90

You could try .85, but again, if you don't ride aggressively...............

But at least put thicker oil in it

[supark]

looks like you have some racetechs in yourself - what spring rate do you have and how much do you weigh?

What did you think of the ZX10R shock?

[chrdog]

i was at 180 and had .90's/racetech emu/20wt. the racetech/20wt is what helped the front end dive the most. even .90's will dive (not as much of course) without thicker oil and emulators. only difference is i do mostly track (wish i did more street though).

didnt wanna bother with it anymroe and did the gsxr fork conversion. much better:D

.85's should be fine

[supark]

Cool - looks like I'll just get some .85 springs instead and use 15 weight oil.

[mojo mofo]

Well I weigh approx 140# without gear and have done the GSXR front end swap. I have all the racetech goodies in my forks, but unfortunately Racetech doesn't make springs less than .85 for those forks. According to their site they recommended I use .75 for street and .79 for track. So I have been using the .85s and they are a bit too stiff for me, but overall I can't complain. If I had the option of picking up a .80 I would definitely do it, but I can't so I don't sweat it. With the stock forks, if you haven't changed the fork oil yet, it makes a huge difference from the lightweight crap they typically use. It was a significant improvement for me even with my light frame.

[dillweed]

I am 150 and I use .80 springs, 15W oil and emulators.

The springs determine the final AMOUNT of brake dive, but the oil determines how QUICKLY it dives. On the street, the oil makes the most improvement. On the track, you need springs too, because you brake longer and from higher speeds, and you don't want to bottom out


as for the ZX10R shock, I can say it improved it a little, but it's not really a night over day difference. If this is all the improvement you get from changing the shock, then I'm glad as hell I didn't pay hundreds of bucks for an Ohlins.

[cyclox]

You might try giving traxxion a call

www.traxxion.com

They should be able to get you the correct spring rate. I got my rear shock from them and the setup/service was excellent.

[newbie]

I plan on having my front forks worked on. I have been recommended 0.90 race tech springs (I weight 200 lbs + gear), and 20 WT oil.

I do not believe the front forks have been rebuilt at all. The bike now has 17K miles on it. What else should I get to do a rebuild on the front forks? It looks like race tech has about everything you need to rebuild them. I'd like to order it all from them.

Anybody that can give me recommendations out there?

Thanks,
Ryan

[redline]

I weigh 160, and according to the RaceTech Spring calculator, the .80s are the closest match. I installed them last year, and already they have "settled in" to being too soft; preload is all the way cranked down to adjust for proper sag.

Suggestion: Round "up" on the RaceTech spring calculator because their ratings seem to be a bit on the soft side once the spring is broken in.

I just ordered .85s this morning.

[rlhotka]

I got the race tech springs and emulator and gixxer rear shock for my bike and it is a different bike, fricken awesome. By the way they give you spring rates on there web site for your weight.

[newbie]

Well I talked to race tech today and unfortunately the springs I need (0.90) are on backorder for a while. I went ahead and ordered them and a rebuild kit (dust seals, upper and lower bushings, oil seals, copper rings), and some 15 wt oil.

I'm hoping this will make the suspension infinitely better...especially due to the cost of what I purchased.

BTW...I was under the impression they gave a discount to socalsvriders.org members, am I wrong? I didn't get a discount.

[ejl10]

Anyone have photos of the Gen 1 OEM and Racetech replacement springs? The Gen 2 photo a few pages back show long OEM and short Racetech springs. My 02 had short OEMs and longer Racetechs. But I bought the bike used and the springs from the classifieds, so either one could be something other than I think it is. Any way to tell just by looking at them?

[harbiho]

Originally posted by HappyZero
I just ordered a set Traxxion Dynamics' SV 650 "Drop-In" Damper Rod Kit:

http://www.traxxion.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=SVDR

And their springs to go with.

Its seems to me that these will be a lot less hassle than having to drill and braze/weld these up myself.



You should've read the emulator install and setting thread.

When you open up the forks, you'll see that the hole to be "brazed" is only a pinhole.

If you follow Zoran's instructions, you'll basically just enlarge the existing holes to 3/8". That's it!! You would've save at least $100.

[racinteach]

it is really not that hard ...The hardest part is sepearting the dampner form the legs...the bolts can be tough...been doing a bunch of these lately...

[harbiho]

So what are you trying to say..............that I was your Guinea Pig???? :p

[racinteach]

no I had done some on the dirt bikes before ..but you were the first sv volunteer...

[dodgy]

Originally posted by racinteach
it is really not that hard ...The hardest part is sepearting the dampner form the legs...the bolts can be tough...been doing a bunch of these lately...

Another method for people without a rattle gun is to put a long hex key in the screw, and give it a decent whack with a hammer (to spin the screw). Works good...

[Stinky]

Almost 3 years and my thread is still alive....wow. And I just redid my damper rods because I did it the old Racetech way with the extra holes. I finally found a set of old forks on Ebay to dismantle.

[DOC]

Well, I finally got my springs so I'll be working on this soon. I think that first I'll call tech support and find out what the deal is on drilling out the damper rods. There seems to be some controversy regarding this.:confused:
DOC

[harbiho]

Doc,

The racetech instructions are generic for all damping rod-type forks. They will tell you to drill out 2 extra holes in the damping rods and that is what the problem is. Do not......I repeat....do not follow racetech's instructions.

If I were you, I would PM Zoran instead; but in a nutshell, he will tell you to weld/braze shut the top pin hole and to enlarge the existing four (4) holes to 3/16".

That's it. Go take your bike to Robert (racinteach). He used my bike as the Guinea Pigs :P and since then, he has done several fork/emulator mods.

[DOC]

I can do the work myself I don't need to take it to Robert's. I just need to get the correct information. I keep hearing conflicting data. The instructions that I got from Race-Tech indicate that there are 2 holes and you are saying that there are 4 holes. You know the 2nd gen have a different fork so I'm going to finish pulling them apart and check it out.
DOC

[racinteach]

Doc same deal just different size hardware...weld up the small hole and drillout the four holes ....cutting the spacers is a little different otherwise not hard ....any questions give me a call...or Pm

[twf]

Originally posted by DOC
The instructions that I got from Race-Tech indicate that there are 2 holes and you are saying that there are 4 holes. You know the 2nd gen have a different fork so I'm going to finish pulling them apart and check it out.
DOC

FYI.race tech has never seen sv forks from inside ;)

[DOC]

Originally posted by twf
FYI.race tech has never seen sv forks from inside ;) Ok, so what are your reccomendations for this procedure?
DOC

[Stinky]

Originally posted by harbiho
If I were you, I would PM Zoran instead; but in a nutshell, he will tell you to weld/braze shut the top pin hole and to enlarge the existing four (4) holes to 3/16".

3/16ths? I thought it was 3/8th's?

[twf]

braze rebound,drill existing holes to 3/8,20W maxima oil.

[harbiho]

Originally posted by Stinky
3/16ths? I thought it was 3/8th's?

Doh!!! #-o

My bad.......

3/8" is what I meant!!!

[harbiho]

Happy........it doesn't have to be that difficult to explain for the common people.

Not all SV'ers are engineers. So, in a nutshell, this is what I did and recommend (since Zoran told me to do so)........after taking the damping rods out of the fork assembly......

1. Open up the existing lower damping rod holes to 3/8". There are four (4) holes on the surface of the damper. 2. Braze, weld or silver solder the small pin hole located on the upper portion of the dampeing rod.
3. Re-install the dampers, drop in the emulators (after initially setting them), cut the spacers and install the springs, spacers and fork caps.

- 0.438" is pretty much 7/16". It's a variation that Traxxion believes to work for the SV.
- whether or not there are 2 through holes in the bottom of each damping rod or 4 surface holes is just plain semantics and just add to the confusion. The bottom line is that you need to open up the existing holes and not add more holes.

[Stinky]

Originally posted by harbiho
Happy........it doesn't have to be that difficult to explain for the common people.

- whether or not there are 2 through holes in the bottom of each damping rod or 4 surface holes is just plain semantics and just add to the confusion. The bottom line is that you need to open up the existing holes and not add more holes.
Lol, yeah. He actually got me thinking I did it the wrong way....again.

[biff]

Don't have anything to add to the drill/braze discussion- didn't do the emulators myself. But one thing I recall burning me when I dropped in my Racetech springs was the oil fill level.

The instructions say to fill the fork oil to within 130mm (or some height. I forget- don't go with this # without confirmation) *before* dropping in the springs. Problem is, the Racetech springs I got were shorter than the OEM by at least 5 coils. So the 2 different springs are of different volumes, and would displace different amount of oil, changing the amount of airspace at the top of the forks.

It sounds nitpicky, but I recall reading people suggesting changes as small as 5mm affecting the feel of the fork, and if true, the difference in spring volume would be noticable.

I suppose if you wanted to go with the factory setting, you could calculate the difference in volume with some simple geometry, but I tried tweaking the oil levels by small amounts a couple of times and just seeing how the bike felt when I rode it. Only did this a couple times before I noticed small little aluminum "fuzz" coming off the threads of the caps just from threading them in and out to torque, and decided to call it quits before I ruined the threads.

[harbiho]

Using longer spacers would pretty much offset the shorter spring length in displacing the same amount of fork oil, right?

[harbiho]

Really??

The recommendation is to measure the oil before the springs are dropped in, right?

When you drop in the springs, sure, the oil gets displaced. Then how come the spacer's volume isn't taken into consideration? It does displace oil too, you know. So if you use a longer spacer, that extra length will also add to the oil displacement.

[ridley]

fill till you have 125mm air space add emulators spring and spacers cap and your done. It is that easy

[biff]

Yes, the spacers will display some oil. But if you use the thin walled SS tubing that Racetech provides, its a negligable volume compared to what a longer spring would displace. If you used PVC pipe, it would probably displace *more* than the springs would have.

And no, its not as easy as measuring to 125mm and dropping everything in. Not if you actually *care* what your fork oil level is at afterwards anyway. Some aftermarket springs may be longer than OEM, some are definitely shorter. Emulators displace some amount too- I haven't actually seen one in person, but I would guess something like 10ml of fluid will be displaced by one. If you are going to go through the trouble of dialing in your fork oil down to the millimeter, then you should also care that whatever equipment you drop into your fork may displace more or less than the OEM spring/spacer- and that needs to be accounted for if you want to remain accurate. 125mm is the amount of head space you want with stock springs/spacers.

HappyZero- your method sounds reasonable- but remember the oil is pretty thick stuff. When you drop something in the fork with oil in it, then remove it, it's going to pull a lot of oil with it. Thats going to lead to a mess and/or an inaccurate measurement unless you have a lot of patience to let the oil drip back off. I abandoned that method myself after trying it, but you might better at it. ;)

[Knaapie]

Ok, not sure if this question has been asked before. I'm riding with Hyperpro progressive springs at the moment and 15W oil. Compared to the stock handling a huge improvement, but as I've been running this set-up for a year now, I find the front end a bit mushy under compression. The rebound is ok.

I've asked Hyperpro about putting in 20W oil to get more compression, but they advised not to because the rebound also becomes slower because of the thicker oil. Especially because the average ambient temperature is around 68 degrees over here. (at lower temperatures the oil gets even thicker)

My intention is to buy a set of emulators to get the front end more sorted out. I thought about a fork swap, but that's too expensive at the moment for an amateur like me. :) What I would like to know however, is if the emulators will work with progressive fork springs? And if not, why is that???

And if I would mount the emulators, is the use of 15W oil advised? I assume the emulators take over a great part of the compression so the oil doesn't have to be that thick. I weigh 200 lbs without gear. Thanks!

[twf]

emulators will not change which oil you use.
change springs to linear.

[dodgy]

Originally posted by Knaapie


I've asked Hyperpro about putting in 20W oil to get more compression, but they advised not to because the rebound also becomes slower because of the thicker oil.

My intention is to buy a set of emulators to get the front end more sorted out.

What I would like to know however, is if the emulators will work with progressive fork springs? And if not, why is that???

And if I would mount the emulators, is the use of 15W oil advised? I assume the emulators take over a great part of the compression so the oil doesn't have to be that thick. I weigh 200 lbs without gear. Thanks!

The real limitation of the SV's damper rod fork design is that the damping becomes harder and harder (exponentially) as the bump speed increases. What this means is that under braking (which is like a very low speed bump) the damping is very soft. But when you hit a bump (no matter what size) at high speed the damping goes hard and the forks can't react, so the front bounces over the bump.

Changing oil will improve low speed damping and make high speed much worse, and the front will chatter and wash out...

Progressive springs don't really help because it is the damping that is controlling the fork movement; the spring really just sets the ride height (sort of).
The second limitation of progressive springs is that when you adjust the preload it just pre-compresses the 'soft' part of the spring. So what you end up with is a very hard, short spring range.

Progressive springs don't work with emulators well for this reason.
As Zoran says, use linear springs.

Ractech/traxxion will recommend a rate but if it is for general road use go one rate down on that IMHO. Their recommendations are for track use I think.

The emulators aren't affected by fork oil weight like the original setup. Racetech generically recommend 20W.

[Knaapie]

Originally posted by dodgy
The real limitation of the SV's damper rod fork design is that the damping becomes harder and harder (exponentially) as the bump speed increases. What this means is that under braking (which is like a very low speed bump) the damping is very soft. But when you hit a bump (no matter what size) at high speed the damping goes hard and the forks can't react, so the front bounces over the bump.

Changing oil will improve low speed damping and make high speed much worse, and the front will chatter and wash out...

Progressive springs don't really help because it is the damping that is controlling the fork movement; the spring really just sets the ride height (sort of).
The second limitation of progressive springs is that when you adjust the preload it just pre-compresses the 'soft' part of the spring. So what you end up with is a very hard, short spring range.

Progressive springs don't work with emulators well for this reason.
As Zoran says, use linear springs.

Ractech/traxxion will recommend a rate but if it is for general road use go one rate down on that IMHO. Their recommendations are for track use I think.

The emulators aren't affected by fork oil weight like the original setup. Racetech generically recommend 20W.
Thanks dodgy and TWF. When I come to think of it, it's a very logical explanation. Especially on the pre-load stuff.

Most of the progressive spring brands write that the close windings of the spring give you comfort, but this is also the part of the spring that compresses first regarding the static sag of the bike. Right? Not to mention when the rider sits on the bike without even riding... :eek:

Too bad I would need new springs as well when fitting emulators. That means I'll have to postpone my purchase. But when I can afford it, I think I'll buy Sonic Springs instead of RaceTech springs and save $30. :)

[SVNerd]

I put in Traxxion springs and their damper rods, with RaceTech emulators, in 20W oil.

I am really pleased with the outcome - worth every penny. Feels as good as - if not better than - some factory-stock cartridge forks I've ridden.

Now, I just have to make the time to get that Penske rear shock installed ...

Also put on Pilot Powers - went to a 120/65 front, and slid the fork tubes up 7 mm in the triples to compensate for the 12 mm tire diameter difference. BTW - I think my speedo is more accurate now. It definitely overindicated with the 120/60 skin.

All of your posts were most helpful !

[dbcooper]

Is there any performance difference between the emulators used with the Traxxion Dynamics kit(4101) and the standard RaceTech emulator(3801)?

[Karnov]

I have a question too... while forks are opened up, is it a good idea to go ahead and replace the forks inner and outer bushings and fork seals or should I just save the $80.00?? And does any one here use a fork brace??

Thanks

[SVNerd]

dbcooper - no difference: the emulators you get from Traxxion ARE Race Tech Gold Valves. They sell them as such (no private labelling, or anything like that), and they will be the same part numbers as if you ordered direct form RaceTech, or got them at your favorite shop down the street.

What I like about Traxxion is the accessibility to their support folks. And their support folks know their shit.

Karnov: WHENEVER you split the forks, I stongly encourage folks to replace the seals. Its mainly because the process of their removal can compromise them. If they were doing the work, any decent shop will insist on it.

As for replacing the inner and outer bushings, is it reasonable to assume that you mean what Suzuki refers to as the "Slide Metal" and "Guide Metal" ? If so, it really depends on how worn they are. Only by inspecting them can you really tell. I see that your bike is an '02 - how many miles does it have ? What kind of riding has it been used for ? If it has >10K miles, I'd probably replace them automatically. But if the bike has really low mileage, hasn't been abused, and the bushings don't exhibit much scoring on inspection, I'd re-use 'em.

The SV fork doesn't suffer too much from latteral flexure, but braces do exist:

http://www.holeshot.com/sv650/forkbrace.html

If I weighed like 300+ lbs., I'd probably be riding a different bike :D, but if I rode an SV, I might use a brace then. Or, if I was a competitive racer I might consider it, if I felt it was needed.

[twf]

Originally posted by dbcooper
Is there any performance difference between the emulators used with the Traxxion Dynamics kit(4101) and the standard RaceTech emulator(3801)?

since you have 03 sv you should buy 4101 emulator.
first 2 numbers are refering to diameter of fork.4101 also has bigger holes for oil to flow through,different size blead hole and also fits your damping rod.
on older generation 3801 fits but we use 4101 and machine it to fit.damper rod on 99-02 is little smaller in ID than 4101 emulator.traxxion makes new damping rods and sells with 4101 emulator where machining is not needed.their damping rod is also set up so no need to drill and braze stock one.

[Karnov]

SVNerd: Thanks for the bit of knowledge. I think I'm going to throw down for the full Racetech treatment and get the .80kg springs, 3801 emulators, seals, bushings, 20wt oil et al. I'll skip on the fork brace as I'm only 150# (it's probably why I never thought the forks were all THAT bad.)

Unfortunately (fortune being the key word) I don't have tools/skill set to do the install myself. Does anyone know if Buymoto can do the work or will I have to go to Lee's Cycle (or Gawd-uh save us all... FBC!!!) I guess that'll determine where I order them from...

Thanks y'all

[dbcooper]

Originally posted by twf
since you have 03 sv you should buy 4101 emulator.


Should have updated my profile.This if for the first gen.I just wanted to know if on a first generation there would be any difference in the performance of the two.I didn't know if Traxxion just used the 4101 in an effort to make it more plug and play or if they were onto something.

[twf]

4101 is better but probably wont make difference to you.

[SVNerd]

Thanks Zoran for picking up on that - I obviously mis-interpreted the point of dbcooper's inquiry - doh !

Karnov - Lee's has a pretty good rep, I can't comment on buymoto (do they do service ?), and you already know that FBC is NOT the shop to go to for this. I'm trying to picture one of FBC's "shop dudes" with a welder/torch filling the itty-bitty hole on the damper rods ... scary.

I don't know if I'd go with 20W oil at your weight - maybe 15W (Zoran - suggestions ?).

Looks like we need to set up "Suspension Maintenance Day" in SD ...

[twf]

15 W is good start.it depends on what brand oil.
I use maxima 20W.

[Karnov]

We totally should have a Suspension day in SD!!! I'd would start a thread but I think it'd be rude of me not having any tools for it. I would be willing to host one...

I don't think Buymoto has the infrastrure for this sort of work. I did get my tires and an oil there. If we do end up setting a date for "SD in SD" that would be awesome. I got a rear tire once at FBC and the guy lost both valve caps and he was only working on one tire!!! Jeez
I'm gonna call Lee's and Buymoto up for pricing on parts and labor versus just getting the part ordered online.

Has anyone been to Clairemont Cycle Center in Clairemont Mesa (San Diego) or C&D in Kearny Mesa??? They're right by my house but from the outside they look like off-road types...

[racinteach]

karnov why not drive up here for have em done in two hours..

[Karnov]

Maybe after I get back... how but next year? By then I should have everything ordered and
and what not. Should we announce another DIY suspension setup day??

[harbiho]

Why not a wrench day instead? Suspension day makes it sound very specific.....like no other work will be done except suspension.

People want to get 600 mile maintenance, tune ups, FE installs, exhaust swaps and the like.

[dbcooper]

Ok so I searched and read about every post both here and @ svrider and I still not clear on the damper issue. Seems like you ignore the rachtech directions,open up the existing holes to 10 mm and braze the top hole closed.Is this correct?I'm trying to understand this with out having ever seen the Race Tech instructions nor ever having these (01) forks apart.

[twf]

yes,that is about right.

[SVNerd]

dbcooper: that's the method.

Traxxion saves the damper modification steps with their own dampers - the setup is then a drop-in (well, a slide-in, bolt-down affair ...). No welding/brazing/soldering or drilling required.

[harbiho]

Originally posted by SVNerd
dbcooper: that's the method.

Traxxion saves the damper modification steps with their own dampers - the setup is then a drop-in (well, a slide-in, bolt-down affair ...). No welding/brazing/soldering or drilling required.

Yup....open up the existing holes and braze, solder or weld one (1) tiny hole up top of the damping rods.

I'd say, just buy the racetech emulators and take the bike to racinteach. Save that extra $$$.

You''l find out that the "Dreaded" hole to be brazed is a tiny pinhole. It's not that big of a deal.

[Tom]

Originally posted by harbiho
Yup....open up the existing holes and braze, solder or weld one (1) tiny hole up top of the damping rods.

Solder???

[timeadc]

I'm goign to buy springs and emulators from RaceTech or maybe from somewhere cheaper.
Is there any interest in getting a group-buy going? Do I need to talk to someone at socalsvriders.com for permission to use our name?

[Karnov]

I'd put my chips in

[harbiho]

Originally posted by Tom
Solder???

Yup.......solder.

racinteach and I looked at that tiny hole and pretty much solder....silver solder if you want to be specific.....will also work.

[racinteach]

I just MIG them shut.....and have the drill press do the rest ... gind them down so they are smooth and clean ....as for getting emulators I can get a good price on them, PM for details

[bharbou]

I'd be all over a group buy on springs and emulators! I'm a big guy and the suspension on this bike is starting to get real old

[dbcooper]

Originally posted by twf
yes,that is about right.

Ok,why?

[twf]

because if you do by race tech directions you will screw up rebound.

[dbcooper]

Could you explain it so an idiot could understand?What happens if you follow the instructions vs doing it this way?

[twf]

if you drill 2 aditional holes instead inlargeing existing ones those 2 holes will be to high on damping rod that fork will slide over them.once fork slides over them you automaticly lose all rebound,you will have none.
think of this.stock rebound hole is about 1.5mm big,pin hole,and it is already to big due to blow by of oil through seals.we close this hole and use only blow by and thickness of oil for rebound.
now imagine instead closing little pin hole you ad 2 more holes 8mm big.you get 0 rebound in lower part of suspension travel.
what it does?when you pull brake lever and compress forks it is like hitting spring bord,forks jump right back.
so,forget about race tech instructions(good thing is you dont have them),inlarge existing holes to 10-11mm(they are 8 now),close rebound hole,and than play with oil and emulator preload.

[T140]

My bike has 14,000 miles and I am changing my springs from Race Tech .90 to .80. I am considering springing for the Gold Valves (pun intended).

The Race Tech site lists several other items and I wonder if I should change them / have them changed while I am in the process. It looks like it will add about $85 in parts and probably labor unless I can get someone to work with me on the modification.

Fork Seals
Inner Fork Bushings
Outer Fork Bushings
Dust Seals
Copper washer for damping bolt

[Kurt'sSV]

I wouldn't worry about those extra things, but that's just me.

[HoolieB]

Originally posted by Kurt'sSV
I wouldn't worry about those extra things, but that's just me.

I agree with Kurt. (Ouch, that's painful btw... ;) ) In a perfect world, all that stuff probably should be replaced when you disect your forks in case they get bunged up during surgery. But if you're careful it should be fine. And go for the Gold Valves -- what a difference!

[harbiho]

Originally posted by T140
My bike has 14,000 miles and I am changing my springs from Race Tech .90 to .80. I am considering springing for the Gold Valves (pun intended).

The Race Tech site lists several other items and I wonder if I should change them / have them changed while I am in the process. It looks like it will add about $85 in parts and probably labor unless I can get someone to work with me on the modification.

Fork Seals
Inner Fork Bushings
Outer Fork Bushings
Dust Seals
Copper washer for damping bolt


Springs and emulators are the best you can do for your bike (aside from doing the GSXR fork swap).

Of the additional stuff on your list, you should buy the copper crush washers for the dampers IF..you decide to install the emulators.

Work it out with racinteach. he has done a few of these now.

[racinteach]

have been doing way to many of these ...really only need the crush washers. it is a good time to change the seals as well, but I would stay away from the racetech ones...they are thinner then the stock ones and you have to machine a spacer to take up the slack. I can get the stock ones for about the same or less..also I can get the emulators discounted as well..

[spindarubber]

Originally posted by bharbou
I'd be all over a group buy on springs and emulators! I'm a big guy and the suspension on this bike is starting to get real old



+1


when you guys say emulators.. you mean these (http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Race_Tech_Gold_Valve_Cartridge_Fork_Emulator_Suzuk i_SV650S--RT506885.html) right?

AND wheres a good place to buy .90 racetech fork springs?


Thanks Fellas (and possibly ladies)


PS. If anyone in the SFV area that has said upgrades (maybe even an upgraded rear shock) would be willing to let me feel er our it would be appreciated... :)

[twf]

Originally posted by spindarubber
+1


when you guys say emulators.. you mean these (http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Race_Tech_Gold_Valve_Cartridge_Fork_Emulator_Suzuk i_SV650S--RT506885.html) right?

yes,those are emulators.

[harbiho]

Originally posted by spindarubber

AND wheres a good place to buy .90 racetech fork springs?




errr....ahhhh.....Racetech maybe???? 8-} :p

Traxxion also sells their own springs.

[spindarubber]

Originally posted by harbiho
[B]errr....ahhhh.....Racetech maybe???? 8-} :p


Yeah that question arose because I use Firefox and the Ractech webpage does not work properly with it, so i never saw the side menus...


come on im not THAT retarded...maybe.

[HoolieB]

I got my Racetech shtuff thru calsportbike.com. Probably could have gotten them cheaper somewhere else, but Todd answers all my rather stupid and tedious questions with infinite patience. :)

[Pdiddy]

What up everyone,

Can someone give me instructions on how i go about changing my springs out? i received them from racetech and plan to change them out this weekend at my buddy's house in valencia. what brand of oil should i buy and how much, and 15w or 20 w? if someone can give me a play by play it would be much appreciated. also we have a rear stand but no pitbull. any suggestions on how to lift the front end besides hanging from garage beams?

[LaPiñaLoca]

I think there's at least one thread about this from a couple years back when people first started doing this, try searching for it.

Aaron

[racinteach]

you can try some jackstands...and without front end stand rafters is your choice...depending on front end s or naked...you can get away with out taking the forks apart...oh wait, you are changing oil ..pull the wheels, pull the forks,lossen cap, pullout springs, drain oil, install new oil, new springs, make new spacers, get air out of new oil, tighten cap and reinstall forks.....in a nut shell ..more details in the manual (download section) or visit my shop..heheh shamelss plug..:D

[Ordnance]

Hey take it to Robert, he has everything you will need, and he has great price's. Plus he will teach you a couple of things about your bike for free.

[Pdiddy]

hey robert,

where is your shop located? how much for spring install. i am not installing springs because i don't want to spend money. just have free time this sat. and time to burn.

[centerline]

Need help - or maybe some convincing.

I have looked at alot of posts and websites about emulator mods. Looks like a pain the ass, to be honest (drilling parts and such). I am not afraid of complicated projects - but see alot of debates on emulator install. This all definately makes me nervous about screwing up my forks in some way. In some cases I have seen homemade spacers and other parts being used. Just sounds scary to me.

How about just springs and oil?

Is the performance gain of adding emulators in addition to springs and oil so much better than just springs and oil? (I have heard that just oil makes a big difference, and new springs plus oil is a major improvement).

FYI, I am about 200 lbs - do not race the bike - but like to get out and have fun. With alot more practice, I would like to be able to corner much harder. Of course, there is also the safety aspect of having a better fork than the stock SV one.

[newbie]

I just have the spring and oil combo. Works out well for me because I really only use the bike for commuting and the occasional cruise with my gf on the back. It really ended the soft fork problem and not too harsh of a ride.

If that's all you are looking for then I don't think you'll need the emulators.

[T140]

I had .90 / 20wt and no emulators. Way too stiff for me (190lb) so I needed to switch to lighter springs.

Decided to do the emulators while I was at it. Then learned of Racinteach and took my bike to him.

It is much better now - not sure how much improvement is attributable to the emulators vs. the lighter spring but I am glad I went the whole way.

Raceinteach also suggested I get 2002 pre-load adjustable caps. It was well worth the $75 (new from Suzuki). I have already used them. You don't have to get the preload perfect at the first shot with the spacer. I highly recommend getting these caps while you are at it.

If you can ship your forks to Raceinteach or TWF / Zorn cost effectively (drain the oil and remove the old spring to save weight), let one them do the whole job.

Alternatively, you should be able to remove your damping rods from your forks easily enough. You could ship those to one of these guys for about $5. Let them modify (drill, braze, and cut your spacer) send it back to you, and you reassemble with their advice.

Keep in mind that to do the springs, you will be removing your forks and cutting a spacer anyway.

[centerline]

What material are the spacers made from?

I have heard of people using PVC. However, is the spacer not a compression element? And subject to the chemical enviroment of the fork oil (petroleum based I assume)?

Also, do the damper rod holes need to be clean and true (e.g. drill press set-up)? or is a little slop O.K. (e.g. homemade jig and hand-held drill)?

Finally, what does this group think of the pre-assembled solutions like the one from traxxion (spelling?)? It is a little more money, but is supposed to be ready to go.

If there is a really solid thread or document on this, let me know and I will cease all stupidity right away. The forks are hot on my list (and probably the only serious modification planned). It think is was the second week I had this bike, I hit a very small depression in the road while turning and the front end decided to bounce somewhere I wasn't happy with. Since then, I have minded my manners a little more when cornering - but would like to get the confidence back via the suspension.

[racinteach]

to start try the oil and springs for the bike first...you don't sound sold on them...the emulators add an element of control to the forks....for the longest time I just ran springs and oil thought it was good..no complaints..then put the emulators in and was really surpirised...what a difference in control and feel...it felt like the wheel was in contact with the ground...it